Author Topic: Hardware report ASAP  (Read 8458 times)


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Re: Hardware report ASAP
« Reply #30 on: 2008.08.11, 16:19:42 »
Hi All,



quite off original topic, but...

Doug, I would have thought the fact ecs is os/2 , albeit with bells on, is enough to sell it - to make it worth buying in its own right.  The 'bells' are secondary to the operating system - os/2!  Without that operating system you have nothing.

Most users, like me doesn't have a software subscription with IBM, and haven't had one either as they only make business with other companies, bigger is better in their opinion, but also what cause IBM problems.

What make eCS so good is the fact (as often stated) that it contain fixes, improvements and applications something that most users can't get on their own. One doesn't have to look them up and buy them separately, install them from different media/locations etc.

I am not a marketing droid but an engineer.  As such I'm more interested in what the product can do, proven, and not the marketing spiel.
Yes wseb was expensive but it works and works well.  On the strength of what my computers can do I've converted a number of people to os/2 (legitimate copies from ebay).

Very good!
I'm an engineer too :-)

You will ask 'why not ecs?' to which I reply version 2 has been so long in coming, indeed its not here yet, and version 1 is apparently so little changed from standard os/2 mcp why not get the original os/2?

Because if you purchase OS/2 with the label eCS, you'll get the same stable product with some improvements IBM doesn't toss into it, but the most important part is that you support continued development of OS/2 under the name eCS. As mentioned, if you buy eCS, Mensys/SSI have influence, if you buy it from IBM, IBM won't care, they're only interested if you buy in 10 000...'s.

Your argument about buying ecs just for the 'enhancements' is only valid is you need a new licence.  I

Perhaps to some, but for me it's because I get more bang for the buck and the installation process is smooth. Warp 4, the only version I could buy, had to be patched to install on hardware introduced 1998 and later. :-(

eCS support (selected┬╣) modern hardware and it's getting better, something that would improve if more OS/2-only users would bite the sour apple and accept eCS as the replacement.

┬╣Eugene should mention that it's true that it work for selected hardware, and it's getting better and better. The intention that you should look through the list of supported hardware is though not what users in general want, so I can understand that you read his postings the way you do.

Eugene, please, we need to find another way for you to tell the English speaking world of the improvements done. Too many perceive (read and interpret) what you write as pure advertisement and therefore get annoyed, though you really just should/want to inform!

suspect there are a large number of people using os/2, like myself, who do not see the need to change their operating system for the same one just to get the enhancements.

Yes, quite a few don't want to "change" to eCS to extend the life of OS/2, the result is that our beloved OS won't get the updates it need. eCS 2.0 could probably otherwise be out somewhat sooner.

When version 2 of ecs arrives (I won't say if) I will point new users in that direction, much easier than waiting for a copy to turn up on ebay.  Note I said NEW users.  I am not getting into the micro$oft way of thinking - here is something new, dump your existing and get the new. That worked for m$ in the past though indications are that its not doing so well at the moment.

Yes, you're quite right, I don't like patching installations and the constant upgrades.
Upgrading existing OS/2 installations behave the same with eCS, it's OS/2, some new drivers has been added and problems corrected and are thus included.

IBM had the right idea in issuing fix packs, and slipping new features in that way, as well as software choice.  The fix packs have obviously finished but I am not convinced that a software choice style channel open to both os/2  and ecs is not a valid concept and would not upset IBM.

Software Choice has been a closed route for many individuals, at least as to what I've experienced, for many years now. You may be one of the few lucky ones that can use it though, but Mensys and some others provide more and more links and info collected in fewer pages that one had to look for at many different places before. That is a huge improvement to me, I don't have to spend a lot of time searching for excellent OS/2 specific native applications and enhancements such as DragText, AWGet, CTorrent etc.

Let's improve OS/2-eCS, make use of text mode (VIO) applications to give us new features, but not reject improvements that follow the OS/2-eCS way, that is PM, SOM and the WPS to allow useful, pleasant and slick solutions for efficient use of our computers.


A few simple questions:

   1. To what extent do "Mensys/SSI" recognize the perceived benefits that can/may
       result from the  Open-Sourcing of all (or parts thereof) of the OS/2 Source-Codes
       as was the context of two petition letters to IBM by the OS/2 World Foundation?

   2. Has "Mensys/SSI" considered offering OS/2-eCS for free similar to the cases of IBM     
       Lotus Symphony 1.0, Linux.... product offerings?

   3. If, the OS/2 Source-Codes cannot be Open-Sourced according to the IBM's
       Response; then, what are the arrangements between IBM-"Mensys/SSI" that make
       it possible for "Mensys/SSI" to have access to the OS/2 Source-Codes?

Hence, the assurances that "Mensys/SSI" can be depended upon for the enhancements that users need in order for them not having to consider the modern hardware supported "Windows" (or, as was recommended by IBM - "Linux") environments.

Thank you.



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Re: Hardware report ASAP
« Reply #31 on: 2008.08.11, 17:10:26 »

Feel like answering "Mixing Apples with Oranges and Bananas", but...

1) I'm no spokes person for Mensys nor SSI, but that's probably not an issue. It's far away and IBM probably won't release anything before 2016 ...(or something).

2) Wouldn't know...but they're not made of money, someone has to collect and distribute it to the mouths/developers that can make themselves invest time for "food" and similar necessities of life.
As they have a tight and limited budget they have to narrow it down to the parts that is doable now.

3) Mensys/SSI doesn't have access to the source code! But they have access to the available fixes that do exist and try constantly to find ways to find the developers that can create additional drivers etc. to overcome shortcomings of the existing OS. ACPI, UNIAud etc. are some of those projects that Mensys seem to play an active part in.



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Re: Hardware report ASAP
« Reply #32 on: 2008.08.11, 18:13:42 »
Apples, Oranges, and Bananas are sort of related...

1) I am also not connected to either company (other than as a customer). I am a retired IBM employee. Knowing a bit about IBM, they won't release anything, unless forced to, or, unless their lawyers, voluntarily, and without cost, do all of the legal things, that need to be done, to clear all of the possible concerns about releasing the code. Since it is unlikely that anybody will (could) force them to release the code, and even more unlikely that their lawyers will do anything, at all, without payment, I expect that releasing code is never going to happen. In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised, if the whole thing is erased, when the last contract is finished. IBM has no interest in quality products, they simply want to sell whatever they can, that will make them money. OS/2 is far too reliable to make money at consulting, when they can make big money converting users to Linux, or Windows, and then keep on making money by fixing the problems that arise.

2) Mensys/SSI could do things like that, IF, and only IF, IBM would foot the cost. IBM has basically said, that they won't do anything for eCS, other than what SSI/Mensys can already do, by contract. I suspect that they are totally amazed, that eCS has got as far as it has, and they would prefer to simply forget all about it.

3) As noted, there is no access to source code. All that SSI/Mensys can do, is document a problem, and invoke the service contract, that they hold for the OS/2 product. IF, and only IF, IBM decides that they will fix a problem, they will produce a one time fix (IBM would, probably, charge for the time to decide that they won't fix a problem). IBM would also produce new features, IF, and only IF, the customer (SSI/Mensys), is willing to foot the bill, which would probably be well into the millions of dollars, which would push the cost well over what could be handled by the OS/2 community. It makes more sense to sub contract to another company, but they need to start over, reinventing the wheel, because they really don't have anything to start with, and those who do charge for their services, are working as cheap as they can, simply to make eCS viable, because they believe in the product. Many others do their part, for free, just because they want to help. The bottom line is, that eCS could be developed further, faster, if the price was doubled, but then the market would dry up, and blow away, leaving us with nothing.


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Re: Hardware report ASAP
« Reply #33 on: 2008.10.10, 15:47:35 »
IMHHO...i thought this was about OS2 world and I see we have all "drifted" toward eCom whatever, for whatever that is worth... it is probubly a good product but I for one do not see the significance of this product as per hardware/ACPI compliancy. My problem is with hardware meshing with OS2 Warp Server Advanced on a Netfinity Machine, though there are no EZ fixes for that rig it has been a challenge and indeed fun to hear from Rob and others in experiencing first hand their technical saavy and expertise...

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