• Welcome to OS2World OLD-STATIC-BACKUP Forum.
 

News:

This is an old OS2World backup forum for reference only. IT IS READ ONLY!!!

If you need help with OS/2 - eComStation visit http://www.os2world.com/forum

Main Menu

Up-to-date applications

Started by sdennis, 2008.09.07, 12:10:31

Previous topic - Next topic

sdennis

Hi, everyone.

A friend of mine and I have been talking about eCS and he seems interested in it, but he brought up a list of programs that he uses under XP that he needs working programs for if he was to use eCS.  Skype was a stickler, but I told him to forget using the software and just get a Skype hardware phone-less demanding on the computer and easier to use.

I told him about Thunderbird and Firefox for email and web browsing.  Told him about ProNews/2 for newsgroups and even SIM for IM (I used it for quite some time without any problems).

Now the stickler is the "office" application.  I've got StarOffice 5.1a here but I don't think that's really an option any more since I don't think you can register it.  I've got Lotus Smartsuite (a later edition, forget which one it is off the top of my head), but I can't think of anything else save for Serenity System's $49 OO option, which it seems is out of the question right now for him.

I've been thinking going back to either OS/2 or eCS m'self since I've had Windows 2000 go berserk on me twice in one month, resulting in two total reinstalls.  So the office question is pertinent for me too.

If anyone has any ideas or suggestions, they'd be appreciated.

Thanks,
Sean

P.S. For some reason, the "email replies" option on this forum is not working for me, so I might not get back to this for a few days.  Having oral surgery on Tuesday, so it'll be a "lay on the couch drugged up and sleeping" kinda day.  ;)
OS/2: Shuts gates, opens windows.

ddan

You bias the choice with "up-to-date". What are the real requirements?

Hardly anyone actually learns and uses the insane array of options provided by
Office 2003 or 2007; most only write a letter now and then, maybe. Every time
I try to pin someone down on what they really NEED an office suite for (as
opposed to the DOS text-mode w/p I use), turns out the only real requirement
is that it be "up-to-date". Most have NEVER used a w/p, don't even have a clue
that they would start a business letter by picking out a style sheet. However,
a real requirement for small business use might be a boilerplate letterhead,
perhaps with graphics, probably available in the Lotus package.

If your friend insists on "up-to-date", meaning a vast program that he'll
never use more than a tiny fraction of, I advise you inform him of the "trial"
versions of operating systems and office suites available on the torrent
sites, and wish him luck. There's no profit for you in attempting to argue him
into assessing real requirements and using the antique but entirely adequate
solutions available with OS/2; at best, you'll only get blamed when he doesn't
bother to learn how to use simple tools, because he's been programmed to think
that "up-to-date" will magically imbue him with eloquence.

ivan

I must agree with ddan on this.  What does he want an 'office'  application for?  Word processing - use Describe, spreadsheet - Mesa (comes with Describe voyager).  Those are what I used to run my business since about '87 when I got warp connect and could easily network the computers.

If he wants a diary and database there is IBM Works that will do the job, maybe not with all the flashing lights and bells and whistles but the WORK which should be the first requirement for any 'office' application.

Then there is the possibility of running win in virtualbox if he must have all the superficial glitz.

melf

#3
I agree partly with ddan, but one quite important function in addition to be able to write and so on, is to also have an easy way to read and produce material from/to the MS Office -world, eg *.doc, *.xls, *.ppt . If you exchange material with other people you sooner or later needs the option. So another idea is to download this "pack" from http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/h-viewer.php?dir=/pub/os2/apps/suite&file=openoffice202_os2.zip&backto=%2Fh-search.php%3Fkey%3Dopen%26pushbutton%3DSearch

It's the OO 2.02 for Windows binaries with an instruction how to use with Innowin, innoteks runtime. As far as I remember its quite easy. Prerequisite should be to have Acrobat reader 5 from innotek installed, and then just drop the windows install-file on that (ar5os2.exe). I will remember it runs fast but could be some "not so good looking issues" ....I don't remember. [Instead read instructions]. A benefit of using the Windows version should be that text-drag is supported within the program, a feature not yet implemented in the native pack.

UPDATE:
Just tried it myself. It's very fast, looks good, seem to work good. No antialiased fonts though and no posibility to download dictionaries or fonts via OO itself. Printing works. A relly good budget alternative!
/Mikael

Fahrvenugen

Hi sdennis,

I would say that based on the requirements, the best option is the $49 support agreement for OpenOffice.  However...

I'd just point out that it is possible to still use the old StarOffice 5.1a.  It is true that it won't register any more, however the last release that came from Sun had an option of "I've already registered" (or something like that) and the software would just run. 

If the old 5.1a does everything needed, this may be an option.  It is still available on hobbes.

On the other hand, I would point out that if you're purchasing a copy of eCS already, another $49 really isn't a whole lot.



obiwan

Quote from: ivan on 2008.09.07, 14:35:59
Word processing - use Describe, spreadsheet - Mesa (comes with Describe voyager).  Those are what I used to run my business since about '87 when I got warp connect and could easily network the computers.

Can these still be had? I was under the impression if we didn't move on them during their time, we were out of luck.

saborion2

#6
Re:

Quote from: ddan on 2008.09.07, 14:03:43
You bias the choice with "up-to-date". What are the real requirements?

Hardly anyone actually learns and uses the insane array of options provided by
Office 2003 or 2007; most only write a letter now and then, maybe. Every time
I try to pin someone down on what they really NEED an office suite for (as
opposed to the DOS text-mode w/p I use), turns out the only real requirement
is that it be "up-to-date". Most have NEVER used a w/p, don't even have a clue
that they would start a business letter by picking out a style sheet. However,
a real requirement for small business use might be a boilerplate letterhead,
perhaps with graphics, probably available in the Lotus package.

If your friend insists on "up-to-date", meaning a vast program that he'll
never use more than a tiny fraction of, I advise you inform him of the "trial"
versions of operating systems and office suites available on the torrent
sites, and wish him luck. There's no profit for you in attempting to argue him
into assessing real requirements and using the antique but entirely adequate
solutions available with OS/2; at best, you'll only get blamed when he doesn't
bother to learn how to use simple tools, because he's been programmed to think
that "up-to-date" will magically imbue him with eloquence.


I can't see how the choice of "up-to-date is being biased when OS/2 for all that it is worth has a lot of catching up to do when it comes to mainstream and "up-to-date" applications such as IBM's Lotus Notes, IBM's Lotus Sametime, IBM's Lotus Symphony.... after all people must be free to make what ever "choice" they wish to make and do what ever things they wish to do.

Best regards,

SAB.

sdennis

Thanks to everyone who's posted and given me and my friend something to chew on.  About the "bias", he said that he needs it to be able to handle current file formats, i.e. Microsoft Word, Excel, Powerpoint, et al.  He's read this, as have I, and I've downloaded StarOffice 5.1a for me.  I'll give it a whirl and see how it works for what little I need as my friend has a much higher demand for using an office application.  Me, well, it's the occasional Excel spreadsheet mainly from work.  I do have to deal with Visio files on occasion, but that's something I can deal with at work.  If I /really/ need Visio, I'll install Virtual PC and W2K on my machine to do the dirty work.

Something I didn't mention that going through my "collection", I've discovered that I not only have LSS, I've also Describe, WordPerfect 5.1 and 6.0 (OS/2 native even!), Ami Pro and a few other office-related programs.  So I guess I've got a choice for that now to start peeking through.

I'm going to go set up SO5.1a and give it a spin...I might recommend he just use that or LSS.

On a slightly different topic (but related), anyone know of a good FTP client?  I personally deal with that a lot.  I've tried a few clients already but have had problems connecting to various servers that I use, including my own.

Thanks for all of your opinions, ideas and thoughts to chew on.

Later,
Sean

P.S. I only received an email notice for the reply from saborion2, so that's why I popped in at the right time to read this. :)
OS/2: Shuts gates, opens windows.

melf

Just want to add one thing: Don't have preconceived notions about the odinized ("innowinized") version mentioned above if you want to be able to use MS-formats. It opens faster, 9 s, (and that is without quickstart option) than my native OO2.04 with quickstart,12 s, on my computer. It seems really stable. Only bad thing is the not antialiased fonts, when you write.
/Mikael

Saijin_Naib

Hey melf (or any others), have you installed these two things?
<a href="http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/drivers/misc/ft2v122.zip">Freetype/2</a>
<a href="http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/util/font/ft2gui102.zip"FreeType/2 GUI</a>

It has improved my OpenType/TrueType rendering so much that I don't even bother with the IFE anymore.

melf

Yes I have, but I really need IFE all the same.
/Mikael

sdennis

Quote from: ddan on 2008.09.07, 14:03:43
If your friend insists on "up-to-date", meaning a vast program that he'll never use more than a tiny fraction of, I advise you inform him of the "trial" versions of operating systems and office suites available on the torrent sites, and wish him luck. There's no profit for you in attempting to argue him into assessing real requirements and using the antique but entirely adequate solutions available with OS/2; at best, you'll only get blamed when he doesn't bother to learn how to use simple tools, because he's been programmed to think that "up-to-date" will magically imbue him with eloquence.

After a few days, here's what's happened: he's decided to stick with Windows for now, but I went ahead and installed my dusty copy of eCS 1.2MR.  I had 4.52 installed, but it was being recalcitrant about a few things I wanted to do with it, so I found my key to eCS and loaded it up.  So far so good.  I'm running it on my small IBM NetVista (I've actually written an article on this website about that computer).  Here's what I've installed for needed applications:

          Web/email: Seamonkey 1.11
Instant messaging: SIM (don't know what version)
                    IRC: OpenChat/2 + gemZ (my favorite IRC client)
              USENET: ProNews/2
         Office Suite: Lotus SmartSuite

I've found all of these to be quite satisfactory for me, including LSS.  It's got recent-enough formats for me to work with and if not, I do have a laptop with XP and OpenOffice installed on it in case of "emergencies".  Overall, I'm quite happy with everything save for not being able to play Flash objects properly, but that's more of an annoyance than a genuine concern.  For me, personally, newer is not always better.  My current setup works great for me...as does my OS/2-based BBS server and my OS/2-based web server.

FWIW, he's not, as you put it, "...been programmed to think that 'up-to-date' will magically imbue him with eloquence".  He simply wants to make sure he can do work from home with certain files.  He's not arrogant like a lot of Linux and Windows users are; he just needs what he needs.  Maybe some time with me and seeing how well things are with me will change his mind, who knows.  I have taken ungodly amounts of crap from friends, co-workers and idiots on the Web about my choice in OSes.  Then again, when theirs blows up in front of their face, I tend to say "told you so".

--Sean

P.S. Plus, I don't have precious resources sucked away by anti-virus or anti-spyware programs either.  An additional bonus!
OS/2: Shuts gates, opens windows.

ddan

#12
Okay, sorry.  You found the one in a thousand who's halfway realistic that grinding out text or doing other real work isn't magically done by software. How was I to know?

BUT the end result is what I predicted, you just got there quickly because I'm blunt from experience.

OS/2 is a hard sell. -- But we're actually in a NICE bubble, having a Firefox 3 version out at same time as for Windows, and with a rather good MPlayer. EXCEPT for Crimosoft-specific formats, that are designed solely to obsolete previous programs and flout all other standards, there's little (serious) that OS/2 lacks.

sdennis

Quote from: ddan on 2008.09.11, 23:01:48
Okay, sorry.  You found the one in a thousand who's halfway realistic that grinding out text or doing other real work isn't magically done by software. How was I to know?

It's okay, I've always been an odd one out.  I also program too (I write my own line of freeware software) so yeah, I know stuff doesn't just happen magically.  Although at work, they expect stuff to work magically. :)

Quote
BUT the end result is what I predicted, you just got there quickly because I'm blunt from experience.

I've been using OS/2 for my personal use one and off since 1998.  I've been using OS/2 for my BBS constantly since 1998 (except one or two times I tried Windows, which was a failure), so I know the value of OS/2.  You might be interested in a page I'm putting into my website (revamping the entire thing right now) about OS/2.

Quote
OS/2 is a hard sell. -- But we're actually in a NICE bubble, having a Firefox 3 version out at same time as for Windows, and with a rather good MPlayer. EXCEPT for Crimosoft-specific formats, that are designed solely to obsolete previous programs and flout all other standards, there's little (serious) that OS/2 lacks.

OS/2 is a hard sell because people have been brainwashed by Microsoft to only use Windows.  There's Linux users, yes, but they are not representative of the true userbase since most computer users couldn't wrap their minds around the concept of doing things for themselves.  As I've said, if you don't want to run MMORPGs or the latest shoot-'em-up game, your choices widen considerably for OSes.  For me, I've never been into those games (although I do like chess, mahjongg and other games, all of which I've found for OS/2 just fine) so that doesn't bother me.

I can do about 95% of what I can do under OS/2-eCS that I could do under Windows.  The only problem I'm having is dealing with Flash with SeaMonkey, but I did some researching on this site last night and found plenty of how-tos.  It shocks people that I don't run Windows or Linux.

There's also a side benefit for OS/2 - built-in REXX.  I'm starting to tinker with REXX and have been looking at REXX/DW.  That alone is something I'd really like to learn.  I have a few programs that I want to write for OS/2 for my own needs.

So, yes, I agree with you, but with the proper education and realization that newer isn't always better, people might just realize the value OS/2 has.  My wife has a nice 64-bit AMD box that runs XP and is a pain in the butt to deal with.  You have to have /THEIR/ (HP) special restore CDs with their proprietary drivers that aren't available for download...ugh.

Later,
Sean
OS/2: Shuts gates, opens windows.