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OFF TOPIC: Lotus 1-2-3 1.7.1 Errors

Started by saborion2, 2008.09.01, 18:40:51

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El Vato

#15
Quote from: The Blue Warper on 2008.09.08, 00:56:28
Quote from: Sander on 2008.09.03, 22:40:56

If I have drawn any conclusion from this thread, sadly it is that my time and effort is better spent in other pursuits.  I won't make that mistake again.  To be clear, this is my last post.

[...]
As for me, I wish Sander's abandon be the last one (and I'd like he could change his mind and come back to this forum).  OS/2 community is too small to afford such a shrinking
[...]

From my perspective, if the OS/2 "community" is shrinking, it is due to that elitism that prevails in the mindset of many individuals.  For instance, while browsing the Web sometimes one can come about a certain comment reflecting the above in reinforcing that status quo within that pseudo community.   I have read narrow and self-defeating (in the sense of reflecting a convenient status of ignorance) arguments like –paraphrasing-- "When us [OS/2] users are on the web, it is the equivalent of driving a Rolls Royce, (whereas others drive commoners vehicles)."  Or some babbling of the form of, "The pool of OS/2 users posses elite genes."

The important issue is to prolong the viability of the OS/2 and not to become extinct through the sheer force of that silly elitist inertia that simply amounts to a dying extended family that can no longer interbreed  –as suggested by my friend BenDragon in certain other post.

Evidently, I welcome different/new/alternative genes into the current pool --for those carry the potential to mutate/alter the existing "elite" gene pool, hence providing the likely benefit to adapt the OS/2 to modern technology infrastructures  --or provide a sense of future direction and/or alternative viewpoints.

If one of those persons who carry those elite genes regard a given thread/post as substandard, all s/he has to do is ignore it rather than display the dismay typical of the "nobility."  By the way, English is my third language, with Náhuatl being my first and Spanish my second (this latter not of my free will).  Hence I apologize to the OS/2 nobility if I do not make sense  :D.

Quote from: The Blue Warper on 2008.09.08, 00:56:28
Just my opinion.  Thank you for your time.

Ditto...

Saijin_Naib

As I've remarked before El Vato, you speak/write quite beautifully and obviously, the remarks were not aimed at you. I wondered about the origins of your name here and on your IT consulting site, but I guess now I know the answer. The central-american languages seem quite beautiful and are certainly unique. Sadly I only know english, spanish, and a bit of Chinese.

saborion2

#17
I could not have done better (although most of my formative years were spent reading, writing and speaking the English Language)...

Re:

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.09.08, 04:26:06
As I've remarked before El Vato, you speak/write quite beautifully and obviously, the remarks were not aimed at you. I wondered about the origins of your name here and on your IT consulting site, but I guess now I know the answer. The central-american languages seem quite beautiful and are certainly unique. Sadly I only know english, spanish, and a bit of Chinese.

Having being brought up between the rivers of the Guianas I have taken a few moments to Google and came across the following links:

Quote

http://guianas.wikispaces.com/Documentation

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_work.asp?id=10013

Both languages are very poorly documented, in fact, we knowpractically nothing about the language of the Wapishana, and the mostdetailed work on Wayana was carried out by the Dutchexplorer/anthropologist C.H. de Goeje at the beginning of thetwentieth century, whose work has left us with a summary grammaticalsketch of the language.The secondary aim of the proposed research is to chart and describethe culturally-dependent conceptualization patterns that obtain inthese languages such as classificatory patterns in the locative anddirectional postpositions, evidentiality patterns, the functions andbehaviour of what have been termed "truth and knowledge" markers suchas have been described for related languages, for example, thefrustrative, assertive, and affective markers. In writing theproposed grammars the researchers will pay special attention to suchspecific cognitive features of these languages with an aim tocreating an over-arching scheme of how these features function in thelanguages of the region.

http://www.narcis.info/research/RecordID/OND1308969/Language/en/;jsessionid=1t8lzmq04fbvm


thus, should I say/add - (having "paddled" through the some of the languages streams of the Americas and REXX being so related to the English Language)... why should one even bother with the "Sander" (only proper/perfect English spoken here) Class and loose focus of the subject matter (Lotus 1-2-3 1.7.1 Errors) at hand while it is most certain that the none English speaking South American natives will also understand that - "None Is Perfect - No Not One"!

Ghee whiz! Like I can say "How was/is your week-end" in Russian (Каким образом свои выходные) - I wish I knew how to say it too in the languages of the (Arrows and Bow-less) Mawayana (Arawakan group); the Trio; Wayana; Katwena; and Waiwai. Also, one wonders what "l-a-n-g-u-a-g-e-s" the Native Americans spoke when the Founding Fathers landed at the "Rock"! 8) 

Kindest regards,

SAB

El Vato

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.09.08, 04:26:06

[...] the remarks were not aimed at you.
[...]

Saijin_Naib,

I think you misunderstood me.   I was referring to the veiled criticism leveled at SAB  --I for one do not like to play the victim and become the target of implicit attacks.  As a matter of fact, I could not care less about those.

My point was in emphasizing, with the aim to appreciate rather than scorn, what Albert Camus, the French philosopher, referred to as the Absurd factor, within the context of Existentialism, that I find in the apparently irrelevant posts from my friend SAB. 

Yes, those break the pattern of those others made by the purported "elite" and ...ahem, pedantic.  Notwithstanding, and modifying a phrase to suit the occasion: "If nothing had any meaning, [the "elite" or conservatives] would be right [in rejecting others' contributions]. But there is something that still has a meaning [in others' contributions]."  But one has to look sideways to find it.  Something that the status quo finds difficult to do due to their inertial blinders  --it is not impossible, though, and could lower the barriers for the adoption of the OS/2 outside their narrow turf.  That's all...

By the way, I am not from Central America   ;) but thanks for your appreciative comments.

ddan

Sander and The Blue Warper have it right, except that to be accurate, obiwan
didn't get any help here, he solved it himself.

Ben, I'll make efforts for all non-English types, have a German and a French
dictionary within reach, but I can rarely squeeze much sense out of what
saborion2 puts into the mix; the specific instance is clear as Sander says.
Bringing in the US National debt? When I see multi-syllabic English words, I'm
entitled, in an "elitist" and "pedantic" way, to assume that the writer uses
them with confidence, and that a cogent thought is to be found in them.

Then the thread dissolved into off-topic "Mutual Admiration Society" in an
increasingly frequent three or four player hijacking.

I'm all for people having fun here ── all boards have a core of regulars who
banter back and forth with their meaning inscrutable to newcomers ── BUT, when
one can't even snipe at Crimosoft here without ACTIVE opposition... Hmm.

saborion2

#20
Re:

Quote from: ddan on 2008.09.08, 09:59:35
Sander and The Blue Warper have it right, except that to be accurate, obiwan
didn't get any help here, he solved it himself.

Ben, I'll make efforts for all non-English types, have a German and a French
dictionary within reach, but I can rarely squeeze much sense out of what
saborion2 puts into the mix; the specific instance is clear as Sander says.
Bringing in the US National debt? When I see multi-syllabic English words, I'm
entitled, in an "elitist" and "pedantic" way, to assume that the writer uses
them with confidence, and that a cogent thought is to be found in them.

Then the thread dissolved into off-topic "Mutual Admiration Society" in an
increasingly frequent three or four player hijacking.

I'm all for people having fun here ── all boards have a core of regulars who
banter back and forth with their meaning inscrutable to newcomers ── BUT, when
one can't even snipe at Crimosoft here without ACTIVE opposition... Hmm.


Hey ddan,

You are right in your thinking that
QuoteSander... have it right, except that to be accurate, obiwan didn't get any help here, he solved it himself
so, too (if I remember the story about "SPARTACUS" that I was once reminded of by an IT Executive during a seminar that I attended:

Quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartacus

Having spent all those earlier years of my life in a certain region of South America; and, while I may not have been quite familiar with the U.S. National Debt... I quite certainly was (like the majority of the people) familiar with the "national debt" (and the social and economic consequences) of the country we were all growing up in and that is the degree of consciousness; so, in any case what difference does it make since they all border on "n-u-m-b-e-r-s"; and, again "ddan" (like the story about Spartacus) I can't seem to be able to account for period when I should have been attending "English Classes" but I can still remember a few of the principles I was exposed to during the engineering technology classes I attended in various parts of the world (I will tell you what I did when I did not understand a certain topic; I re-read and re-read until I got the drift); therefore, pardon any lack of expertise on my part when it comes to the "English" comprehension.

Like, "Sander"... it is quite understandable if you have a "status quo" to preserve in your ("elitist" and "pedantic" way"s") so much so that you found yourself compelled to be so identified. And, like the El Vato(s) of this forum; and, for my own part - that same "Spirit of Evolution" that goaded Spartacus will continue to be the guiding light to take the nation through the darkness brought about by the (Sander et al-like Turf's) Fannie Mae(s) and Freddie Mac(s)" (like the National Debt)
Quote

Treasury Acts to Shore Up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/washington/14fannie.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

It's called - "The Development Continuum" and that is the "Evolutionary Spirit" of the "Sparta Group" (non-academic group) that you may be up against.

And, now we would about the "Lotus 1-2-3 1.7.1 Errors" and not the "English Grammar". ???

Hope you are having a fun day today.  8)

Regards,

SAB
 

ivan

Saborion2 - What are you blathering on about now?

It is getting to a state where, if I see any mention of you name as the latest post I don't bother looking any more.  My understanding was that when someone asks a question we should try and help - NOT waffle on in an incomprehensible way.

I also fail to see what errors in Lotus 1-2-3 on OS/2 has to do with the mortgage market in the US.

saborion2

#22
Re:

Quote from: ivan on 2008.09.08, 19:25:53
Saborion2 - What are you blathering on about now?

It is getting to a state where, if I see any mention of you name as the latest post I don't bother looking any more.  My understanding was that when someone asks a question we should try and help - NOT waffle on in an incomprehensible way.

I also fail to see what errors in Lotus 1-2-3 on OS/2 has to do with the mortgage market in the US.


Hey ivan,

Should I dare say "here we go again" or not?  ???

Secondly, should I ask what was the compulsion for you to respond to my post even in the same breath you are claiming that it is pointless reading them. How about if you just avoid reading them altogether.

Just in case you are forgetting before the "Sander" staged tirade began this is was was said:

Quote

SAB, are you seriously back in this thread with THAT??

First, DUDE, it's 2008!  No one in their right mind uses a spreadsheet to "run" their business.  A spreadsheet is a tool.

Second, DUDE, it's 2008!  No technology is safe from obsolescence.  If you're REALLY this fixated on obsolescence, what on G-d's green earth are you doing in an OS/2 forum?  Do you REALLY view OS/2 or it's eCS distribution as "safe" from obsolescence?

Third, DUDE, it's 2008!  In case you've been living under a rock, Microsoft won the war.  If we are talking about de facto standards in the business world, the Excel file format (by virtue of it's ubiquity if nothing else) is it.  Last time I checked, current versions of Excel do not run under OS/2 natively.  That is what filters are all about, and with the latest updates, I have no problem using Lotus 123 for viewing, sharing, or saving files in Excel format.  I use spread sheets a LOT as a financial tool.  This may astound you, but newer is not always better.  There are professionals using 123 simply because they prefer it.  That includes the manager of my local Washington Mutual Bank (though the bank is standardized on Excel), and my accountant, both of whom I have shared spreadsheets with.  My broker uses Excel....


Well, for your (as well and Sander's) kind information I for one prefer not to recommend that a company's future be "pawned" to the Redmondians and if for any reason it is believed that the "mask" that you are wearing would allow you to slip by the modernized "IBM Lotus Symphony Shield" then think again; and, if you cannot fathom the need for working modernized analytical "tools" (not faulty ones) for use in the (troubled) "mortgage market in the US" then that is no fault of mine (or others) that recognize the values of freedom of choice that come with "Open Standards" upon which IBM's Lotus Symphony is built (the Development Continuum) (of which neither Lotus 1-2-3 nor Excel is not) and the "Evolutionary Spirit" of eCS.

Nice try though; but, try again guys (or learned gentlemen) and please keep the focus on the "message" (topic) and not on the messenger (person addressing the topic)!

Regards,

SAB   

ddan

Does anyone here discern the LEAST apology or regret from saborion2 for an
actual offense with consequence for Sander and rest of OS/2ers here? No, just
the opposite, a happy attitude as he turns attention to others.

Saborion2, if you've ANY decency, post an apology asking Sander to return.

Rather than leaving too, I have a finesse to suggest to the reasonable here,
hardly new, and that's to not respond to off-topic posts.

And before the notion is turned on ME, I apologize for past and future ranting
about the evil which is Crimosoft, though maintain that it's necessary for
contrast, I can't ignore THEM or do much more than exercise what I mistake for
wit.

At least I never end a post with transparently phony "best regards".

ddan

If not clear, the "National Debt" bit is something saborion2 threw in at post #19:
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8019/#msg8019

Suppose he's forgotten even his own rambling. That was the last straw for me.

RobertM

#25
Quote from: Ben on 2008.09.03, 20:20:27
Sander.

This is an International forum.

A significant portion of the people that read and post here, have English as a second language.

A lot of them feel reluctant to post because of this and limit themselves to 'desperation situations' only, probably then thinking that they will do a poor job at best... though I think that they do fine.

You just made a lot of these people feel like crap, and their posts, unwelcome.

Hi Ben,

I think you are mistaking Sander's intent, which I believe was directed at SAB's lack of anything contextual to the conversation, and odd tangents of total irrelevance, instead of Sander's comments being directed at those who do not speak English natively. I've been around the OS/2 UGs for over a decade and a half, and Sander has always been helpful, never belittling anyone for a not-quite-complete grasp of English because it is not their native language.

I think, like others, he is just getting frustrated by SABs quotes from "who the heck knows where" of items totally irrelevant, such as fighter jets, and posts like the one below "Having being brought up between the rivers of the Guianas I have taken a few moments to Google and came across the following links..." (which is related to someone's problems with 1-2-3 how?) and so on.

Not just is it cluttering our forum, but making it look like we all are... well, I choose not to use any of the words that first pop into my mind (and cant think of a polite one).

Sadly, pop into any thread SAB has been involved on and you find half-page long posts totally irrelevant to the topic - and often barely vaguely relevant to anything computer related (much less OS/2).

I'm curious how many new (and old) forum members we turn away because answers to questions are obfuscated under a dearth of unrelated nonsense. I for one have been spending less and less time on these forums solely because of his nonsense going on mostly unchecked.

At least Tim Martin's posts had some logic to them (even if it was a very twisted logic based on numerous fallacies) and was on topic to the discussion at hand. His (Tim's) posts could be debated, pulled apart, debunked, whatever.


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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saborion2

Quote from: RobertM on 2008.09.10, 21:19:01
Quote from: Ben on 2008.09.03, 20:20:27
Sander.

This is an International forum.

A significant portion of the people that read and post here, have English as a second language.

A lot of them feel reluctant to post because of this and limit themselves to 'desperation situations' only, probably then thinking that they will do a poor job at best... though I think that they do fine.

You just made a lot of these people feel like crap, and their posts, unwelcome.

Hi Ben,

I think you are mistaking Sander's intent, which I believe was directed at SAB's lack of anything contextual to the conversation, and odd tangents of total irrelevance, instead of Sander's comments being directed at those who do not speak English natively. I've been around the OS/2 UGs for over a decade and a half, and Sander has always been helpful, never belittling anyone for a not-quite-complete grasp of English because it is not their native language.

I think, like others, he is just getting frustrated by SABs quotes from "who the heck knows where" of items totally irrelevant, such as fighter jets, and posts like the one below "Having being brought up between the rivers of the Guianas I have taken a few moments to Google and came across the following links..." (which is related to someone's problems with 1-2-3 how?) and so on.

Not just is it cluttering our forum, but making it look like we all are... well, I choose not to use any of the words that first pop into my mind (and cant think of a polite one).

Sadly, pop into any thread SAB has been involved on and you find half-page long posts totally irrelevant to the topic - and often barely vaguely relevant to anything computer related (much less OS/2).

I'm curious how many new (and old) forum members we turn away because answers to questions are obfuscated under a dearth of unrelated nonsense. I for one have been spending less and less time on these forums solely because of his nonsense going on mostly unchecked.

At least Tim Martin's posts had some logic to them (even if it was a very twisted logic based on numerous fallacies) and was on topic to the discussion at hand. His (Tim's) posts could be debated, pulled apart, debunked, whatever.

Just why on this God's Greening Earth (to borrow Sander's phrase...) are you posting your nonsense RobertM? and, As a point of reference here is an extract from a 1998 Lotus Development Corporation communication that I am/was privy to; and, to repeat:

Re:

QuoteConcerning the issues with 1-2-3 that are talked about in the documentation you gave me, most of the issues are related to converting files between older and newer versions of product and converting documents between Lotus and Microsoft. Anytime a file is saved backwards or saved with an older file format than the format the file was created under, such as saving a 1-2-3 , 97 file for Windows 95 into a WK1 format for DOS, then naturally we are expected to loose certain features due to technology and features that are present now that were not present 8 - 10 years ago. Similarly, if we try to convert a file from Lotus into Excel or Excel into Lotus, due to differences in the products not every feature will be converted perfectly with the file filters that are available. Both Lotus and Microsoft create similar spreadsheet programs; however, there are several differences in both programs and these differences will remain to distinguish the products apart. We do try to design conversion filters that will allow as much of the file formats as possible to be exchanged and converted without disrupting the actual file design and format.

In one of your letters you made mention of the @IRR and @ERR functions in the 1-2-3 product. By design the @IRR (notably "absent" in Open Office) will calculate the Internal Rate of Return; where the @ERR is used in conjunction with other formulas, posted was an "ERR" showing an error was received in the calculations. As far as I can see in the program I cannot find an @ERR function that will allow us to calculate an Economic Rate of Return"
[/color]

Like you, I have been around a few places too; and, I am not one to run to "mommy" and "daddy" when I was repeatedly told to stay out of "kitchen" when and if I cannot stand the heat. How about if you (and others who prefer not to read my posts) do the next best thing - just do not read them as you do not have to.  8)

BTW, I thought I had read earlier something which said - "Lotus 1-2-3 1.7.1 Errors (Fixed) and may not have bothered responding but for your mentioning SAB in your post while I honestly believe that SAB was not the "subject matter" in this thread.

Hope you are having a nice day today.

Regards.

SAB

RobertM

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.09.10, 22:03:59

Just why on this God's Greening Earth (to borrow Sander's phrase...) are you posting your nonsense RobertM? and, As a point of reference here is an extract from a 1998 Lotus Development Corporation communication that I am/was privy to; and, to repeat:

Re:

QuoteConcerning IRRELEVANT ISSUES TO THIS THREAD... (SNIP)
[/color]

Like you, I have been around a few places too; and, I am not one to run to "mommy" and "daddy" when I was repeatedly told to stay out of "kitchen" when and if I cannot stand the heat. How about if you (and others who prefer not to read my posts) do the next best thing - just do not read them as you do not have to.  8)

BTW, I thought I had read earlier something which said - "Lotus 1-2-3 1.7.1 Errors (Fixed) and may not have bothered responding but for your mentioning SAB in your post while I honestly believe that SAB was not the "subject matter" in this thread.

Hope you are having a nice day today.

Regards.

SAB

Here is a "short" list of your irrelevant posts in this thread regarding helping with fixing 1-2-3:
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8179/#msg8179
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8168/#msg8168
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8157/#msg8157
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8026/#msg8026
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8023/#msg8023
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8020/#msg8020
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8018/#msg8018
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg8015/#msg8015
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg7999/#msg7999
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg7973/#msg7973
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg7970/#msg7970

NONE of which is relevant to the post that started this thread:
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg7950/#msg7950




And finally one relevant contribution from you:
http://www.os2world.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,63/topic,1188.msg7980/#msg7980




So, the tally is 11 irrelevant posts, 1 relevant (from you). Over 1/4 of the posts in this thread are irrelevant nonsense from you. Add in the posts from those seeking some sort of clarification to your meaning (which never comes), or politely (or not so politely) trying to get you to stop, or being egged on by each new post of yours, and it accounts for half of this thread.


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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saborion2

#28
There is something I remember someone said some time ago at this forum and some of those words were in relation to what (his "Grand-mother" told him when playing with the other children in the park.); to this, I will hasten to add that I am aware that come November 8th... millions of Americans (including myself) will be making decisions that will impact their livelihoods. Therefore, what may be of "relevance" in terms of "security" (social, economic) et cetera, et cetera to some on this forum may be "irrelevant" to others on this forum also. So, like my goodly pal who remembered what his "Grand-mother" told him when he was young - I would opt to let "Father Time" (if history is any indicator, and it usually is) "which make the opinions/views of some mortals like a grain of sand blowing in the wind or the tides of the seas that come in and go out" reveal what may be of "relevance" to some as their social and economic lives are affected by the use on non-use of "Lotus 1-2-3" (barring the errors, "when the lights come on"; or what happens on t_h_e  d_a_r_k  s_i_d_e  o_f  t_h_e  m_o_o_n); but, in any case - there always will remain the (it is sincerely believed) "f_r_e_e_d_o_m  o_f  c_h_o_i_c_e and f_r_e_e_d_o_m  o_f  s_p_e_e_c_h on t_h_e  b_r_i_g_h_t  s_i_d_e  o_f  t_h_e  m_o_o_n)!

And, with this I rest my case.  8)

RobertM

SAB,

Let me clarify then. Continued off topic posts, as deemed such by the Moderators of this forum (not by you or whatever euphemism you spout), will be removed from whatever thread they are in and placed in the "Off Topic Discussions" forum. I will no longer be responding to such posts in the main forum threads. If the efforts to sort out off topic posts becomes excessive, then instead of moving them, they will be summarily deleted.

I believe I have made that sufficiently clear. Feel free to make your off topic posts - in the off topic post category. Anywhere else will result in the actions above.

Robert


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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