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Censorship (was, before being hijacked: Re: 4.52 Convenience Pack CD's)

Started by ddan, 2008.10.20, 14:11:49

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You are free to do whatever you want on the internet but just as if someone comes into my home and becomes irritating, I reserve, and I expect the right, especially in my own home, to ask them to stop, or to leave :-)

The internet wants to be free in relation to speech but people, like spammers and others, just don't get it, the difference between setting up your own soapbox, and intruding on someone else's soapbox.

People are FREE to travel the internet and setup their own space, don't intrude on the space of others without being invited (and permission is given in many forms). I could for example introduce a requirement for username and password access to my website, no different to keeping the front door locked but until it gets bad enough I prefer to leave the door shut but unlocked for the time being, as 99.9% of visitors do the right thing as far as house manners go.

Everyone should be free to express their points of view, to do their own thing (within commonsense, social and legal constraints) on the internet BUT in a community sense, somethings are better placed some were else, ie, its fine for your dog to shit on your lawn but please don't keep on bringing it to my house to shit on my lawn (or in my house), and just as real life, accidents happen, and the odd one will be ignored :-)

Cheers
Ian Manners
I am the computer, it is me.

ddan

Censorship takes many forms, for instance, CONTROLLING THE DEBATE, and
DISRUPTING OTHER DISCUSSION.

Is this not what saborion2 does here? Does he do anything positive?

Just what is saborion2's purpose here?

Here's a quote from a writer of whom I no longer approve, yet apt for this:
"Don't ask the meaning of a folly, ask yourself only what it accomplishes."

saborion2

Hi Ben,

Here is another usage of the word - "C-I-T-I-Z-E-N" as in:

Re:

Quote

Software Patents for Methods of Doing Business–A Second Class Citizen No More

[....For many years, anyone seeking to patent the use of a computer for functions that were previously performed manually had double trouble if the invention related to a "way of doing business." First, the Patent and Trademark Office decided that mathematical algorithms were not a statutory category of subject matter that could be protected by patent. Second, "business methods" were held to be unpatentable. These two objections have been eroded over the years.

Recently, software inventions involving algorithms have been eligible for United States patents as long as tangible results are produced. Also, in the mid-1980s, Merrill Lynch won a court ruling that it was entitled to have a patent on its Cash Management System, which involved various types of processing of financial data by computer.

In 1998, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in the State Street case destroyed the last remnant of the "method of doing business" objection to obtaining a patent. It ruled that no legal basis exists for such an exception to patentability and that if an invention otherwise meets the standards for patentability, there is no legitimate basis for denying the issuance of a patent. This ruling was made for a software invention that used computerized processing to establish a system for pooling of assets of mutual funds.

The State Street decision, combined with the rapid growth of e-commerce, has led to a large number of patent filings on software inventions related to a method of doing business. Amazon.com, for example, patented its "1-click" system, which enhances the speed and efficiency with which a customer can place an order....]

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/matters/matters-0012.html


One wonders which "C-I-T-I-Z-E-N-S" on Wall Street and in other countries around the world get "Censored" for the financial and economic crisis (misbehavior, imprudence....); and, how much implementations of "OS/2 4.52 Convenience Pack" would help.?

Cheers.

ddan

I think it likely that saborion2 is an actual Crimosoft troll paid to disrupt
this site, given the compulsive pattern for no discernible reason. Their
malefic spite for OS/2 could easily spend a few thousand to that end.

------------------------------
Astroturfing, from Wikipedia
"In January 2007, an Australian writer revealed that a Microsoft employee had
offered to pay him to edit Wikipedia articles regarding Microsoft products.
[7]"
"In 2001, the Los Angeles Times accused Microsoft of astroturfing when
hundreds of similar letters were sent to newspapers voicing disagreement with
the United States Department of Justice and its antitrust suit against
Microsoft. The letters, prepared by Americans for Technology Leadership, had
in some cases been delivered via a mailing list to deceased people or
incorrect addresses, where the recipients forwarded them without
correction.[15][16][17]"
------------------------------

No, I'm not on a vengeful crusade nor unduly paranoid, simply responding to
continuing irritation. My thinking on this particular line was prompted by yet
another pointless post by saborion2, to resurrect a thread last dated 4.28 in
which his purpose here was questioned, and then he was warned:

====================================
And to say one thing clear:
This thread was one of the last chances to make you stop spamming all the
other ones. But you seem even unable to stick to you very own topic. Now, I
don't expect you to say you're sorry, as it won't make any difference anymore
either. I just expect you to stay ON-TOPIC and try to argument in your favor
with facts instead of insults. You currently are being watched every move VERY
closely and you ARE walking on a thin line... note well that before os2world
will lose any one user because of you, I will certainly pull the emergency
brake and lose YOU before instead. You're the n00b, not everyone else.
====================================

Well, search for the "Sander" incident: you've lost that one user.

He brings it up to mock you, and frankly, after reading the COMFETAR thread
warning in light of SIX MONTHS MORE OF THE SAME, you deserve to be mocked.

saborion2

Re:

Quote

Intellectual property

[....Intellectual property rights are a bundle of exclusive rights over creations of the mind, both artistic and commercial. The former is covered by copyright laws, which protect creative works, such as books, movies, music, paintings, photographs, and software, and gives the copyright holder exclusive right to control reproduction or adaptation of such works for a certain period of time.....]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property


Does anyone know within what time frame will any rights currently held by Microsoft, IBM et al with regards to "OS/2 4.52 Convenience Pack...." expire; and, to what extent (are there currently); and, will there be "restrictions" (if any) to the OS/2 Developer Communities around the world.

Thank you.
 

kim

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.10.23, 06:11:22
Hmmmmm, One wonders how the below attached would be interpreted/addressed on/applied to this forum in the context of "Censorship"!  8)

RE:

Quote

Internet Freedom of Speech

Information wants to be free, and the Internet fosters freedom of speech on a global scale.

The Internet is a common area, a public space like any village square, except that it is the largest common area that has ever existed. Anything that anybody wishes to say can be heard by anyone else with access to the Internet, and this world-wide community is as large and diverse as humanity itself. Therefore, from a practical point of view, no one community's standards can govern the type of speech permissible on the Internet. In the words of John Barlow, a founding member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) -- "In Cyberspace, the First Amendment is a local ordinance".

http://www.livinginternet.com/i/ip_speech.htm


Any comments on this anyone?


Well, first of all the First Amendment doesn't apply to this provided service due to that the First Amendment doesn't apply to Sweden and the server and organisation is based in Sweden. I just want to point this out so we don't have to walk the entire road on how US laws and amendment should apply or not.

saborion2

Thank you very much "kimhav" for that explanation; and, while we are on this subject it will be instructive to know how the questions with regards to

Re:

Quote

WHAT IS INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY?

(Also)

Why do countries such as the United States, Japan, and The Netherlands protect inventions; literary and artistic works; and symbols, images, names, and designs used in commerce: the information and original expressions of creative individuals known as intellectual property (IP)? They do so because they know safeguarding these property rights fosters economic growth, provides incentives for technological innovation, and attracts investment that will create new jobs and opportunities for all their citizens. The World Bank's Global Economic Prospects Report for 2002 confirmed the growing importance of intellectual property for today's globalized economies, finding that "across the range of income levels, intellectual property rights (IPR) are associated with greater trade and foreign direct investment flows, which in turn translate into faster rates of economic growth."....]

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/intelprp/


along with that of "content ownership" is regarded in Sweden from an international perspective.

Also, for the benefit of the general membership of this forum it will be most interesting to have the views of others from other countries (other than Sweden and the United States of America) and how these issues are regarded it that country.

Thank you.

Kindest regards.

RobertM

saborion2,

I will add another point - which I have already stated multiple times - which you have already read multiple times (and even commented on).

Freedom of speech as defined in the US, would not apply to this forum even if it was hosted in the US and owned by a US company. This forum is a private entity - and in that respect would be similar to you visiting someone's house and being told they did not want you discussing _______ in their house - and you still repeatedly doing so - and then being legally "thrown out of" of their private property.

In the particular cases you have referenced and/or implied on these forums, people... have been warned numerous times.

In either event, as Kim stated, US law does not apply as this forum is not a US entity. And even if it was a US entity, "Freedom of Speech" would not apply either. There are numerous US court cases which confirm this (research it yourself).

Robert

Quote from: kimhav on 2008.10.23, 21:48:17
Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.10.23, 06:11:22
Hmmmmm, One wonders how the below attached would be interpreted/addressed on/applied to this forum in the context of "Censorship"!  8)

RE:

Quote

Internet Freedom of Speech

Information wants to be free, and the Internet fosters freedom of speech on a global scale.

The Internet is a common area, a public space like any village square, except that it is the largest common area that has ever existed. Anything that anybody wishes to say can be heard by anyone else with access to the Internet, and this world-wide community is as large and diverse as humanity itself. Therefore, from a practical point of view, no one community's standards can govern the type of speech permissible on the Internet. In the words of John Barlow, a founding member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) -- "In Cyberspace, the First Amendment is a local ordinance".

http://www.livinginternet.com/i/ip_speech.htm


Any comments on this anyone?


Well, first of all the First Amendment doesn't apply to this provided service due to that the First Amendment doesn't apply to Sweden and the server and organisation is based in Sweden. I just want to point this out so we don't have to walk the entire road on how US laws and amendment should apply or not.


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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ddan

Why have threads at all? Why have topics? That's just censorship! Everyone should be free to toss whatever is flitting through the mind at the moment. -- ONE THREAD! Let everyone skip past whatever they don't find of interest.

RobertM

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.10.23, 00:17:37
(nonsense)

(more nonsense)

Thank goodness (for now) "DELETE FUNCTIONS" are not like "Timber Harvesters and Bulldozers"!

Enjoy.

SAB

Oh, but SAB, it can be. It only takes one button click to remove all your posts. Just one simple click (well, two if you count the "submit" button once that option is selected). It is far more difficult to move your posts to an off-topic thread or even to delete them one at a time. That's a lot more work than simply deleting them all - that alone should show you all the effort we are going through to allow you to enjoy these forums as well.

We are trying to be tolerant - while you continue to try to push every button we have. That's got nothing to do with censorship. It is entirely to do with you trying to incite us (which I dont really care about on a personal level) and more importantly trying to incite our forum members (Sander, rudi, and numerous others, who have in posts, email and PM, complained about your and your attitude).

Try yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater and see how well "Freedom of Speech" protects you. Try to verbally attack someone baselessly and see how well "Freedom of Speech" protects you. It wont in either case. You've called people stupid (implied, and sometimes even pretty directly). You've called some of the OS/2 community's biggest contributors useless and do-nothings - all while touting how wonderful you and your lack of software that you will never port or release is (btw, you do know that some of our members work or worked for IBM, or currently work with IBM for eCS releases, and could quite easily quash all your claims about your planned, but never to be, software?).

So the real question here isn't about censorship - its about why do you continually try to incite forum members? Why do you continually hijack threads? Why are you (in the past, and more vaguely in the present) trying to use these forums as a fund raising tool for software that will never be licensed to you? Why to you express and/or imply that all of our other forum members are stupid or otherwise mentally deficient when you are the only one who sees any logic in your off-topic posts?

Answer those questions for us please. Those are the real questions. And, I would suggest answering them seriously, truly, and with deep thought applied - in a fashion the rest of the world will understand.




As for me... I could care less about your posts. On a personal level it doesnt bother me in the least bit. But then again, my job as a moderator is not something personal. I do care (on a moderator level) when a Sander gets annoyed to the point he wont return, or a rudi gets called (implied or otherwise) stupid and useless, or when other forum members get annoyed at lack of ability to find answers to their questions because you have bombarded a thread with nonsense. That is nothing personal though. It's called moderation - and it is a moderator's job.




What I wonder is, how long before more forum members request that we push those two buttons? Maybe that threshold has been met already... or maybe that threshold will be met on your very next insanely off-topic, non-sensicle post? I dont know... that isn't my call - you'll probably know the same time I find out.

Regardless, it isn't censorship - no one is stopping you from saying what you want to say - just simply say it in the correct thread. That's all. One simple request - which you have ignored time and again.

Regards,
Robert


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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kim

With the latest complaints made I'm closing this thread.