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Newly cloned hard drive doesn't boot

Started by Tommy in Scotland, 2009.03.31, 00:29:52

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Tommy in Scotland

This evening I cloned my OS/2 Warp 3.0 hard drive using EASEUS DiskCopy 2.3, however the clone does not boot. The white "OS/2" block never appears. I have used a Windows 95 Startup disc to verify (using fdisk) that the primary partition is set as active. Using the DOS prompt on the Win95 floppy, I have done a quick DIR /p of the clone and I see no obvious errors. EASEUS DiskCopy is supposed to make the clone of a bootable hard drive bootable. Can anyone suggest what may have gone wrong? I have removed the original drive so there cannot be a boot conflict. Also I have booted successfully to the original OS/2 drive using the same jumper settings and same IDE and power connectors.

Pete

Hi Tommy in Scotland

What is EASEUS DiskCopy 2.3? - Well, obvious what it is meant to be but I'm wondering if it is 1 of a multitude of "Win only" disk tools?

Well, found the homepage and looked for specs - which seem to be lacking... Does claim "providing sector-by-sector disk/partition clone regardless of your operating system, file systems and partition scheme" but not much else...

I think I would have looked at DFSee for the cloning task - www.dfsee.com - or simply used fdisk and xcopy.

Guess it must work with Warp3 if all looks correct when booted from floppy.

Long time since I last used Warp3... Does Warp3 require the use of Sysinstx to be run against the cloned drive to install system files?

Regards

Pete

ivan

More details needed. 

What file system is your OS/2 - HPFS or FAT?

How does the diskcopy program you used work - sector by sector copy or something else?

If the OS/2 disk is formatted HPFS then most windows based programs will see it as NTFS and mess up the copy.

If the OS/2 disk was formatted FAT then you will need to run SYSINSTX.COM ti set the boot parameters.

Get a copy of DFSEE and use that to clone your drive - it knows all about OS/2.

Tommy in Scotland

Hi Pete,
well I'm not sure as all this cloning is fairly new to me. EASEUS DiskCopy 2.3 is freeware and it is downloaded as an iso file, which creates a boot CD. The program on the CD simply transfers all data from the source partition to the destination partition (including the boot-sector), which means it is non OS-specific... or at least that's what I was led to believe. One user commented that it should be able to copy Linux drives just as effectively as it is simply a drive-sector replication utility.

The boot CD has a flashy GUI which guides you in a basic way through the process. One thing I may have made an error on... after making the copy, the EASEUS GUI then told me to reboot (ensuring that only one bootable drive was still connected on startup), and when the system went down to reboot I switched off in order to remove the source drive, then switched back on in order to remove the CD and boot to the clone. Since the EASEUS said "Press any key to reboot", I'm wondering if I should have let it reboot then with both drives and the CD in place?

When I then connected the source drive and booted it, it immediately ran chkdsk, so I'm wondering if DiskCopy has done anything to the original drive while copying it? Having said that, it is working perfectly. Only the clone does not boot. I'm anxious to sort this as I'd like to use both OS/2 drives in different machines.

I may try another attempt tomorrow following the CD's reboot instruction more closely... I must say, the entire copying process from a 545MB drive to a 4.3GB drive went very quickly on my 400MHz Celeron PC.

Tommy in Scotland

Hi Ivan, my OS/2 drive is FAT, due to the fact I have DOS and Windows fw3.11 on it.

EASEUS DiskCopy 2.3 is a sector replication utility running from a bootable CD.

Where do I run SYSINSTX.COM? The drive does not boot at all... instead of the white OS/2 block in the top of the screen I just get a flashing white cursor. I suppose there is some boot activity taking place to allow this, otherwise the computer would say "Missing Operating System".

ivan

Hi Tommy,

The information you gave Pete says you do need to run SYSINSTX.COM becaus of the size changes of the disks.

In your case you would run it from the Warp 3 boot floppies.  (It's on the installation diskette of my warp 3 connect set)  You go to a command prompt and with the installation diskette in the drive run sysinstx c: (or what ever the boot partition for OS/2 is), remove the diskette and reboot - OS/2 should then boot correctly, if not then there are more problems that need sorting out.

I assume you have OS/2 on its own partition and not some unholy mess of OS/2, DOS/WINDOWS on the same partition.  If it is the former then the simple way is to format the OS/2 partition HPFS then XCOPY over your original OS/2 (This is how I've transferred OS/2 when I've upgraded hard disks.  In fact I've created a bootable CD with a copy of OS/2 zipped in it for use should anything go wrong with the boot partition on my machines).

I'm not sure about how EASEUS DiskCopy works so would be very careful using it.  I'll get a copy of it later in the morning (02:19 here at the moment and I need to take the dog out for his last walk of the night) then run it in a virtual machine and see what happens and let you know.

RobertM

#6
Quote from: Tommy in Scotland on 2009.03.31, 02:14:23

I may try another attempt tomorrow following the CD's reboot instruction more closely... I must say, the entire copying process from a 545MB drive to a 4.3GB drive went very quickly on my 400MHz Celeron PC.


Gang,

I think here MIGHT be the key. The partition is FAT, and the disk is 4.3GB. The OS/2 boot partition should be under 2GB for FAT and Warp 3, at the beginning of the disk (well, all FAT partitions on OS/2 should be 2GB or less if memory serves...)

OS/2 wont boot or be able to use the partition.

Tommy, you have to ensure the FAT partition is no greater than 2GB and resides in the first 1024 cylinders (the second part should not be a problem). And the rest of the free space either needs to be FAT paritions under 2GB (if you want OS/2 to be able to use them, or HPFS.

Rob


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Tommy in Scotland

Thanks everyone. I think RobertM has hit the nail on the head. This morning I started the whole process again, using a 1.2GB destination drive. Using EASEUS DiskCopy I did the same copy operation from the original 545MB OS/2 drive to the 1.2GB drive, and it successfully copied the bootable FAT partition. I have booted successfully into the new clone and have created a new 703MB HPFS partition in the remainder of the drive. It's great because I can experiment far more with OS/2 now, without fear of losing my data. If I corrupt it in any way I can remake it from the mould, so to speak.

I had to change computers as the 400MHz PC would not boot to a CD. For some bizarre reason, regardless of how I set the boot sequence in BIOS, the CD drive would not boot. I have never seen this happen before. I am now using a 700MHz machine for my OS/2 drive.

ivan

Hi Tommy,

Sorry I missed the bit about increasing the partition size to one over 2GB.  I assumed when you said clone you meant just that, a partition the same size as the original.

I did download the program and  can confirm it does work on the virtual OS/2 I set up as you have found.

One thing I would recommend you do is to partition you new large hard disk into a C: partition for DOS/WINDOW and a D: partition (HPFS) for OS/2 then use boot manager to allow you boot either on as necessary.

Andi

Quote from: Tommy in Scotland on 2009.03.31, 14:23:42
....as the 400MHz PC would not boot to a CD. For some bizarre reason, regardless of how I set the boot sequence in BIOS, the CD drive would not boot. ...

Some CD-Drives need a lot of time to detect a bootable disk. Way too much for some bioses which do boot from harddisk before the CD is ready. <PAUSE> key for a few seconds right after bios drive detection will help in such cases. I've one system which behaves like that. Maybe you have the same problem...

RobertM

#10
Quote from: Tommy in Scotland on 2009.03.31, 14:23:42

I had to change computers as the 400MHz PC would not boot to a CD. For some bizarre reason, regardless of how I set the boot sequence in BIOS, the CD drive would not boot. I have never seen this happen before. I am now using a 700MHz machine for my OS/2 drive.

Open the case, ensure that the CD ROM is on the Secondary IDE controller, and ensure it is set to SLAVE (not master or cable select). If you are using an 80pin cable, ensure that the CD ROM drive is on the middle connector (not the end).

On a 40 pin cable, it should not matter unless the cable has a tiny chunk missing in one of the wires (in which case it should be labelled which connector is Slave).

Then, go into the BIOS, ensure that the CD ROM is recognized, (and recognized on the correct port: Secondary->Slave), and re-ensure the boot options are still correct (ie: "CD-ROM -> Floppy -> HDD" or some other order that puts the CD-ROM first).

Then try booting off the CD.





If that does not work, try another bootable CD. If that DOES work, then the drive may not be able to read the offending CD. If that is the case, try re-burning the CD at a really low speed or try using a different brand CD-r burned at a really low speed.




If that fails, replace the CD-ROM drive - it may be failing. When that happens, they often first exhibit the problem with issues booting or reading certain CDs/CDr's.





Rob


NOTE: The above instructions only apply to certain older machines, and are not required on any recent machines (or even some older ones)


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ivan

Robert, I hate to disagree with you but in every instance I have come across where an older computer would not boot from a CD - if the bios allowed that - was because the CD was set to SLAVE and not MASTER.  Changing from SLAVE to MASTER allowed booting from CD in all cases but one and that one was fixed with a new CD drive.

As I understand it being able to boot from a CD with the drive set as SLAVE is the exception rather than the rule, even if you did give yourself an 'out' at the bottom of your post :)

I have vague memories of something from IBM about CD drives not working if they were set to SLAVE and they were the only item on the IDE controller.  Having had a quick look through my Warp3 and 4 books I think it must be in my archives which are in boxes in the loft and I'm not about to go looking there at the moment.

I do agree with your other two statements regarding a bad burn and drive.

Since Tommy appears to be up and running at the moment, most of this is mute but may be interesting to someone else.

RobertM

Hi Ivan,

Oddly, I had the exact opposite issue with various true IBM machines: PC330, PC350, PC750s - all around the same age as the machine he has. Also, if you look at the tech notes for older Packard Bells, HPs and CompuDynes, that is the configuration recommended as well.

It was somewhere in the slightly higher CPU (and BIOS) range that things started to change. The recommendations were for speed, do not connect to same channel as the HDD, and for compatibility/boot (and with Warp, sometimes even seeing it) set to slave.

Those are each the reason why the drives came factory set to slave (and the older machines seemed to prefer it - at least the ones that used the same chipsets and similar BIOS's to the IBMs) - because (1) it would be correct in a single cable setup, and (2) it would be correct and work in a dual IDE channel/cable setup.

The newer machines (the second series of 400MHz and up) preferred Master for CD-ROM on second controller for boot.

So perhaps I should have clarified that. His machine straddles that line (and cant tell on what side without knowing model information and such). Because it does leave a plethora of old machines that require it on the master setting for booting - but also a bunch of even older ones that use the slave channel.


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RobertM

#13
Seems the previous thread has gotten corrupted, with only half my answer (the remainder is after the line break):

Hi Ivan,

Oddly, I had the exact opposite issue with various true IBM machines: PC330, PC350, PC750s - all around the same age as the machine he has. Also, if you look at the tech notes for older Packard Bells, HPs and CompuDynes, that is the configuration recommended as well.

It was somewhere in the slightly higher CPU (and BIOS) range that things started to change. The recommendations were for speed, do not connect to same channel as the HDD, and for compatibility/boot (and with Warp, sometimes even seeing it) set to slave.

Those are each the reason why the drives came factory set to slave (and the older machines seemed to prefer it - at least the ones that used the same chipsets and similar BIOS's to the IBMs) - because (1) it would be correct in a single cable setup, and (2) it would be correct and work in a dual IDE channel/cable setup.

The newer machines (the second series of 400MHz and up) preferred Master for CD-ROM on second controller for boot.

So perhaps I should have clarified that. His machine straddles that line (and cant tell on what side without knowing model information and such). Because it does leave a plethora of old machines that require it on the master setting for booting - but also a bunch of even older ones that use the slave channel.






I'm actually a little vague on the reasons - but I think it had to do with the ATAPI support on the drive and mobo... from the OS/2 CD ROM installation notes of that time (machines older than his, to about that age):

OS/2 Warp Installation With IDE CD-ROM

      Symptom -
            End user wants to know if OS/2 will work with IDE CD-ROM drives. Cause -
            The cause of this issue is unknown at this time. Resolution -
            OS/2 Warp and OS/2 Warp Connect will install correctly and work properly with all of our current model IDE CD-ROM (Panasonic 571/572, NEC 271/272) drives without software modification.  This statement is true as long as the following two rules are followed.
                  1.      The IDE CD-ROM is ATAPI v1.2 compliant.
                  2.      The IDE CD-ROM cannot be configured as the Master.

This issue seemed to affect other operations as well (CD boot) on older machines with older ATAPI support, as well as a large amount of other drives - many at that time were made by those two companies (for instance, Creative's and IBM's drives were usually the Panasonics - and either labelled Creative, Creative-Panasonic, or IBM (with Panasonic's part number or for the multimedia kits, with Creative's part number (and when for IBM, Creative's part number with a letter appeneded and blue buttons).

------------------------------------------------
I think his kinda straddles that line (though maybe it is clearly "on the newer and this doesnt apply side") - but it has been ages...


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RobertM

BIG correction:

The notes below seem to apply to Pentium Level machines (not PII or equivalent - or higher) with ancient IDE support, and/or ancient IDE CD-ROM drives and/or ancient ATAPI support in OS/2.

So unless Tommy's machine has one or more of the above (ancient IDE/BIOS support and/or an ancient IDE drive and/or ancient ATAPI drivers in OS/2), it should not apply.




Tommy, PM Ivan for the updated drivers as he mentioned in the TCP/IP thread and give them a whirl. The Dani drivers alone may resolve your issue with the CD-ROM drive.

Sorry for the confusion - been a while since I've run OS/2 on anything other than a PIII or above (not counting my IBM Thinkpad, which is an entirely different beast than most other machines of the age).




Leaving my post below in case by some chance of fate it applies to some weird configuration/chipset in Tommy's machine or some other ancient machine someone else may be running.

Thanks for making me dig for a clarification Ivan, and for being on top of it.

Rob


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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