Author Topic: What are Your real priorytes ?  (Read 15757 times)

ALT

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Re: What are Your real priorytes ?
« Reply #30 on: 2011.01.04, 11:20:24 »
Please tell me what are those far more important things that eCS/OS/2 user needs ?

Printer driver support (sorry, but CUPS isn't doing the job, even though it is a big step forward)

Out of curiousity, what is it about CUPS that you feel isn't up to the job?

I know it still needs OS/2 proper front-end tools to make it more user friendly.  But I think the underlying technology is quite capable of "doing the job", so to speak...

DougB

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Re: What are Your real priorytes ?
« Reply #31 on: 2011.01.05, 22:34:43 »
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Out of curiousity, what is it about CUPS that you feel isn't up to the job?

It seems that some new support program (for CUPS) is now required for some printers (something like HPLIP). It also seems that Paul has declined to port it (don't remember why). It also seems that some of the available PPD files just don't work properly. For instance, I have a Canon i960 printer. There is a PPD file for it, that prints the full page in the top, left quarter of the page. So far, I have not found a way to get that to do anything else. Trying some other possible PPD files results in various other problems, that don't seem to be fixable. I have not had much time to work with this, so there could be something that I have missed. Fortunately, the i960 works fine using the old i950 support in the OMNI driver. My brother also has a newer Canon MP325 (I think). It will also work with CUPS, but not properly. The vertical prints at twice the height that it should. Again, I did not have much time to work with that, so the printer is only usable in windows, at this time. I should get another shot at making that work, sometime over the spring/summer time period.

FWIW, CUPS is a huge step forward, but it is certainly not the real answer to printer support. Unfortunately, it seems that it will be the only printer support for new printers, so eCS users will have to carefully select their printers (which has been the case forever anyway). I suspect that CUPS will, slowly, run out of steam, in much the same way that GENMAC has declined to the point of not being usable with new hardware any more. The only thing going for CUPS, is that it is still under development in the Linux world. However, the latest version that was ported (from cups-1.4.4-os2-20100812.zip), seems to have a few problems (like it asks for a user ID, and password, but nobody has suggested what it is actually looking for, so logging into it is not possible). I am sure that these problems can be fixed, if somebody, who knows what they are doing, takes the time to figure them out. Meanwhile, there are at least two printers, that I know of, that just plain don't work properly with CUPS, and I, personally, have never seen one that does work with CUPS, even though both printers seem to be supported by CUPS in the UNIX world.

The bottom line is, that better printer support is something that should be addressed, but there are other things that are more important.

miturbide

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Re: What are Your real priorytes ?
« Reply #32 on: 2011.01.06, 00:32:38 »
...well, from my side I earned some negative criticism to say what must be the real priority for the eCS-OS2 community.

The real priority in the long term should be complete vendor independence. The only way to to this (on this days) is turning the OS complete to open source side.

The problem: Currently like XX% of the eComStation code (ok some may say 99%) belongs to IBM.
IBM has told us that they:
1) don't support OS/2 anymore.
2) don't improve the OS/2 code anymore.
3) won't turn it open source.

Patching OS/2 to run on modern hardware is good, but it is only short-term strategy, new hardware keeps coming over the years and once day patching it will be impossible. When we get to that day (when patching gets very very hard) some guys thing the long term strategy should be make OS/2 run on a virtualized environment in new hardware. That don't feel like running a real OS to me, but you may think different.

The real priority for me should be:
- Help/Sponsor/fund open source projects over eCS-OS2
- Try to get as much of open source replacements for IBM's OS/2 close source components (IBMMAC, MMPM, MPTN, kernel, makeini.exe, iconedit.exe...etc)
- One day build complete open source eCS-OS2 clone distro.

This is should be the long-term priority that will provide a future to the platform.

Pessimist will always say making an eCS-OS2 clone will be hard, will be expensive and will take too much time...but wait, there is famous open source Unix clone that now is one of the leading server OS platform.  It took time, resources were expended and it was hard, but it is a reality.

That's my point of view, my critics are free to think/say whatever they want.
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aschn

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Re: What are Your real priorytes ?
« Reply #33 on: 2011.01.06, 01:24:20 »
The real priority in the long term should be complete vendor independence. The only way to to this (on this days) is turning the OS complete to open source side.

ACK.

The problem: Currently like XX% of the eComStation code (ok some may say 99%) belongs to IBM.
IBM has told us that they:
1) don't support OS/2 anymore.
2) don't improve the OS/2 code anymore.
3) won't turn it open source.

Not only IBM stuff is closed source, but also most of the projects sponsored by Mensys. Let's see, if they'll change their minds.

Andreas

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Re: What are Your real priorytes ?
« Reply #34 on: 2011.01.06, 02:26:06 »
Quote
...well, from my side I earned some negative criticism to say what must be the real priority for the eCS-OS2 community.

I am not sure that I would call it "negative criticism". It is more like a reality check.

Quote
The real priority in the long term should be complete vendor independence. The only way to to this (on this days) is turning the OS complete to open source side.

That seems to be happening, on a very small scale. It takes a lot of work, but talented programmers, to figure out how to replace parts of the system, and then write the code to do so. There just aren't enough of those to go around, so it is a very slow process.

Quote
some guys thing the long term strategy should be make OS/2 run on a virtualized environment in new hardware

Some will argue with me, but that makes sense, only as a bridge to converting to some other OS. It makes more sense to be able to run Windows in a virtual environment, to do what OS/2 cannot do, but that means that OS/2 (eCS) needs to be able to run on the new hardware, and we need a good virtual machine environment to use.

Quote
The real priority for me should be:
- Help/Sponsor/fund open source projects over eCS-OS2
This is good, but there are limited resources, so some sort of priority needs to be made.
Quote
- Try to get as much of open source replacements for IBM's OS/2 close source components (IBMMAC, MMPM, MPTN, kernel, makeini.exe, iconedit.exe...etc)
Iconedit.exe can be replaced by any picture editor, and the actual icon files can be created by PMView.
Quote
- One day build complete open source eCS-OS2 clone distro.
That will probably never happen. There is just way too much work to be done, and not enough people capable of doing it. However, some parts might see the light of day. Again, it requires a set of priorities. Start with the necessary parts, and add the rest when/if it is possible.

Quote
It took time, resources were expended and it was hard, but it is a reality.

We are having a tough time trying to pry enough resources out of the users to keep eCS working, never mind making significant advances. What the users need to realize, is that everybody needs to contribute, in any way possible, to keep OS/2 alive as eCS. It will take strong support from the users, to keep it going. Whether that could ever translate into enough support to do much more than patch it together, remains to be seen.

Quote
That's my point of view, my critics are free to think/say whatever they want.

Critics are not the problem. The problem lies with those who sit back and demand progress, without contributing to the project.

Quote
Not only IBM stuff is closed source, but also most of the projects sponsored by Mensys. Let's see, if they'll change their minds

To be fair, Mensys has a business to run. They do need something to entice people to buy eComStation. They have also contributed a number of things to the OS/2 community. Without Mensys, OS/2 would have been dead, and buried, long ago. Those who seem to think they should have access to all that Mensys does, don't seem to understand how a business works. You pay for what you get, in one way or another, or the business goes out of business, and you get nothing. Look at what happened with SNAP,  BackAgain/2, FAXWorks (AKA PMFAX), and so on. Not enough business to keep the projects going. IMO Mensys has done a pretty good job, with minimal resources, and they do deserve some support for it, but they can't just give away the product.

demetrioussharpe

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Re: What are Your real priorytes ?
« Reply #35 on: 2011.01.06, 04:33:15 »
...well, from my side I earned some negative criticism to say what must be the real priority for the eCS-OS2 community.

The real priority in the long term should be complete vendor independence. The only way to to this (on this days) is turning the OS complete to open source side.

The problem: Currently like XX% of the eComStation code (ok some may say 99%) belongs to IBM.
IBM has told us that they:
1) don't support OS/2 anymore.
2) don't improve the OS/2 code anymore.
3) won't turn it open source.

Patching OS/2 to run on modern hardware is good, but it is only short-term strategy, new hardware keeps coming over the years and once day patching it will be impossible. When we get to that day (when patching gets very very hard) some guys thing the long term strategy should be make OS/2 run on a virtualized environment in new hardware. That don't feel like running a real OS to me, but you may think different.

The real priority for me should be:
- Help/Sponsor/fund open source projects over eCS-OS2
- Try to get as much of open source replacements for IBM's OS/2 close source components (IBMMAC, MMPM, MPTN, kernel, makeini.exe, iconedit.exe...etc)
- One day build complete open source eCS-OS2 clone distro.

This is should be the long-term priority that will provide a future to the platform.

Pessimist will always say making an eCS-OS2 clone will be hard, will be expensive and will take too much time...but wait, there is famous open source Unix clone that now is one of the leading server OS platform.  It took time, resources were expended and it was hard, but it is a reality.

That's my point of view, my critics are free to think/say whatever they want.

A man after my own heart!
The difference between what COULD be achieved & what IS achieved
is directly relational to what you COULD be doing & what you ARE doing!

demetrioussharpe

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Re: What are Your real priorytes ?
« Reply #36 on: 2011.01.06, 04:36:03 »
Quote
...well, from my side I earned some negative criticism to say what must be the real priority for the eCS-OS2 community.

I am not sure that I would call it "negative criticism". It is more like a reality check.

Quote
The real priority in the long term should be complete vendor independence. The only way to to this (on this days) is turning the OS complete to open source side.

That seems to be happening, on a very small scale. It takes a lot of work, but talented programmers, to figure out how to replace parts of the system, and then write the code to do so. There just aren't enough of those to go around, so it is a very slow process.

Quote
some guys thing the long term strategy should be make OS/2 run on a virtualized environment in new hardware

Some will argue with me, but that makes sense, only as a bridge to converting to some other OS. It makes more sense to be able to run Windows in a virtual environment, to do what OS/2 cannot do, but that means that OS/2 (eCS) needs to be able to run on the new hardware, and we need a good virtual machine environment to use.

Quote
The real priority for me should be:
- Help/Sponsor/fund open source projects over eCS-OS2
This is good, but there are limited resources, so some sort of priority needs to be made.
Quote
- Try to get as much of open source replacements for IBM's OS/2 close source components (IBMMAC, MMPM, MPTN, kernel, makeini.exe, iconedit.exe...etc)
Iconedit.exe can be replaced by any picture editor, and the actual icon files can be created by PMView.
Quote
- One day build complete open source eCS-OS2 clone distro.
That will probably never happen. There is just way too much work to be done, and not enough people capable of doing it. However, some parts might see the light of day. Again, it requires a set of priorities. Start with the necessary parts, and add the rest when/if it is possible.

Quote
It took time, resources were expended and it was hard, but it is a reality.

We are having a tough time trying to pry enough resources out of the users to keep eCS working, never mind making significant advances. What the users need to realize, is that everybody needs to contribute, in any way possible, to keep OS/2 alive as eCS. It will take strong support from the users, to keep it going. Whether that could ever translate into enough support to do much more than patch it together, remains to be seen.

Quote
That's my point of view, my critics are free to think/say whatever they want.

Critics are not the problem. The problem lies with those who sit back and demand progress, without contributing to the project.

Quote
Not only IBM stuff is closed source, but also most of the projects sponsored by Mensys. Let's see, if they'll change their minds

To be fair, Mensys has a business to run. They do need something to entice people to buy eComStation. They have also contributed a number of things to the OS/2 community. Without Mensys, OS/2 would have been dead, and buried, long ago. Those who seem to think they should have access to all that Mensys does, don't seem to understand how a business works. You pay for what you get, in one way or another, or the business goes out of business, and you get nothing. Look at what happened with SNAP,  BackAgain/2, FAXWorks (AKA PMFAX), and so on. Not enough business to keep the projects going. IMO Mensys has done a pretty good job, with minimal resources, and they do deserve some support for it, but they can't just give away the product.


Also true.
The difference between what COULD be achieved & what IS achieved
is directly relational to what you COULD be doing & what you ARE doing!

miturbide

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Re: What are Your real priorytes ?
« Reply #37 on: 2011.01.06, 05:16:27 »
Quote
I am not sure that I would call it "negative criticism". It is more like a reality check.

Sorry for the hard words, but in that case the "reality check" is that there is no future for this platform. The long term strategy can not be "We will patch OS/2 until..." . There had to be at least little by little efforts to get out of the closed source code and have a future.  We had been dumped by IBM once and to do not repeat history open source is the way.

Quote
Iconedit.exe can be replaced by any picture editor, and the actual icon files can be created by PMView.
I was just putting example on try to focus on remove all the closed source components. Plus PMView is not open source.

Quote
To be fair, Mensys has a business to run...
I personally think that Mensys had done a good job. (too bad it is a waist of time to think what would happened if Stardock would got the OS/2 reseller representation) And I understand they don't have the resources the re-code an OS/2 clone. Plus in their current position they can not set an strategy telling IBM, "Our current strategy to ditch you out and stop paying you the royalties by making an open source replacement".

Quote
The problem lies with those who sit back and demand progress, without contributing to the project.
Which Project?  "We will patch OS/2 until..." ??

Quote
Without Mensys, OS/2 would have been dead, and buried, long ago. Those who seem to think they should have access to all that Mensys does, don't seem to understand how a business works. You pay for what you get, in one way or another, or the business goes out of business, and you get nothing. Look at what happened with SNAP,  BackAgain/2, FAXWorks (AKA PMFAX), and so on. Not enough business to keep the projects going. IMO Mensys has done a pretty good job, with minimal resources, and they do deserve some support for it, but they can't just give away the product.

There is something wrong here. We are not a business, we are a community. As consumers and part of this community we do not represent the important chunk of business. The business are banks and industrial customers that have OS/2 applications and it is cheaper to buy eComStation that run in modern hardware than migrate all the OS/2 apps to other platform.

For that business the strategy called "We will patch OS/2 until..." is right. But the business don't want an state of the art OS, they want something that work for their needs. Banks want to keep using eCS-OS2 until they migrate to a new core banking software (that don't run on OS/2 anymore), Industrial customers want to use eCS-OS2 in their scada until they took the decision to buy a new scada system (that don't run on OS/2 anymore) just to list some example. Sure there are exceptions, but if you go today to the CIO on banks or industries that use OS/2 they prefer to have Linux/Windows because the skills are easy to find to manage the servers. Plus nobody developing Business Applications want to develop them under OS2-eCS, so banks do not have in mind eCS-OS2 when getting a new core banking.. and the same for other industries.

Don't get me wrong, I want everybody to buy eComStation and I wish the best for Mensys. And I thank Mensys for sponsoring Firefox, QT, OpenOffice and Java ports. Mensys has a good strategy for Business, "run OS/2 in modern hardware to keep your OS/2 investment". And I agreed that it is right to say that "Mensys is the only big player investing on eCS-OS2 this days ". I just wish that someday Mensys sold 3M copies of eCS in one year so the OS will get more relevance, but here goes the "reality check" again.

Why does the eCS (new users) install base does not grow as good as we all dream:

1.- Source code is controlled by IBM, and IBM is not doing any new development. Will you buy a software on this condition?

2.- Developers like to go were the mass is to create applications. Windows had a lot of market share, MacOS is an interesting market. Even the iOS and Android market is interesting. How many software license will I make to make software for eCS-OS2 ?

3.- Linux may not have a lot of desktop market share but it is free (in cost) and it is open source (vendor independent) and that's what make it different. Why should I buy eCS against the Linux option?

I like eCS-OS2 because it is my choice and it is my personal preference. But If I play the "reality check" game ecs-OS2 does not have anything to attract new users compared to other OSes.

Thats why the more logical thing to do is to walk the open source path. Make little by little progress and focus to replace the close source components because that is the only way to have something to attract new users by saying "we have a future".

Many are afraid about OSS software and they keep thinking than the only way to make money is selling licenses. People think that OSS is communism and bad for business but that is not true. Just think that Redhad had pulled a very good business with service and all they code is open source. Business is not selling licenses anymore, not with this OS.

The "reality check" is: We open source or the platform die when we can no longer patch it anymore or when "business" don't found it relevant to patch it anymore.
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Paul Smedley

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Re: What are Your real priorytes ?
« Reply #38 on: 2011.01.06, 06:54:49 »
Quote
Out of curiousity, what is it about CUPS that you feel isn't up to the job?

It seems that some new support program (for CUPS) is now required for some printers (something like HPLIP). It also seems that Paul has declined to port it (don't remember why). It also seems that some of the available PPD files just don't work properly. For instance, I have a Canon i960 printer. There is a PPD file for it, that prints the full page in the top, left quarter of the page. So far, I have not found a way to get that to do anything else. Trying some other possible PPD files results in various other problems, that don't seem to be fixable. I have not had much time to work with this, so there could be something that I have missed. Fortunately, the i960 works fine using the old i950 support in the OMNI driver. My brother also has a newer Canon MP325 (I think). It will also work with CUPS, but not properly. The vertical prints at twice the height that it should. Again, I did not have much time to work with that, so the printer is only usable in windows, at this time. I should get another shot at making that work, sometime over the spring/summer time period.

FWIW, CUPS is a huge step forward, but it is certainly not the real answer to printer support. Unfortunately, it seems that it will be the only printer support for new printers, so eCS users will have to carefully select their printers (which has been the case forever anyway). I suspect that CUPS will, slowly, run out of steam, in much the same way that GENMAC has declined to the point of not being usable with new hardware any more. The only thing going for CUPS, is that it is still under development in the Linux world. However, the latest version that was ported (from cups-1.4.4-os2-20100812.zip), seems to have a few problems (like it asks for a user ID, and password, but nobody has suggested what it is actually looking for, so logging into it is not possible). I am sure that these problems can be fixed, if somebody, who knows what they are doing, takes the time to figure them out. Meanwhile, there are at least two printers, that I know of, that just plain don't work properly with CUPS, and I, personally, have never seen one that does work with CUPS, even though both printers seem to be supported by CUPS in the UNIX world.

The bottom line is, that better printer support is something that should be addressed, but there are other things that are more important.

Actually HPLIP has been available for over 7 months from http://svn.netlabs.org/ecups/wiki/CupsPort

A link to cups 1.4.5 has also been posted to the ecups mailing list.  Not sure why you think that cups is going to run out of steam when Apple bought the company that wrote it and it is the printing system used by every Apple computer that is sold, as well as just about every unix distribution.

Maybe you're referring to the OS/2 port of cups running out of steam - I can't see that happening anytime soon, although every time I read about Apple's being on sale I am tempted to go buy a 27" iMac :)


DougB

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Re: What are Your real priorytes ?
« Reply #39 on: 2011.01.06, 07:16:21 »
Quote
There had to be at least little by little efforts to get out of the closed source code and have a future.

It is happening, little by little. Unfortunately, too little, and too late, to be of much use. Those who are doing the projects are overworked, and don't get a lot of help. Fortunately, they are learning more as they go along, so it is not as difficult to do new projects.

Quote
Plus PMView is not open source.

No,it's not, but it is available, and has been updated not too long ago. There is nothing wrong with closed source programs, as long as they are supported. Unfortunately, not all authors, or companies, have the courtesy to open source their work, when they decide to quit working on them. That was, in fact one of the great failures of Mensys. They did not have an ironclad contract for SVista, and it went away when it was sold. There are some other examples of that too.

Quote
Which Project?  "We will patch OS/2 until..." ??

No, the whole eComStation project (OS/2 has not been updated, at all, since IBM dumped it, except in the form of eComStation).

Quote
There is something wrong here. We are not a business, we are a community.

WE are a community. Mensys is a business. If they are going to stay in business, they need customers. If Mensys goes away tomorrow, so does eComStation. The rest of us are not ready to stand alone. If everybody pulls together, it may be possible to do it, someday, but there are too many things that need to be done for it to happen over night.

Quote
But the business don't want an state of the art OS, they want something that work for their needs.

Actually, that isn't quite true. Most businesses want some sort of "support", for whatever it is that they use. eCS has limited support, mostly supplied by users. OS/2 (or eCS), is still used, because there is a hard core group of consultants, who know the system pretty well. The main "problem" that most businesses have with that is that there is a limited possibility of being able to sue them if something major goes wrong. Patching the current software still leaves the "mark of IBM" on the whole product. If somebody replaces all of those parts, business is going to be looking pretty hard, to make sure that it still works the same, and it isn't going to be easy to do the benchmark testing to prove that. An open sourced OS/2 will be taking a back seat behind the major Linux distributions, simply because they have a longer track record.

Quote
The "reality check" is: We open source or the platform die when we can no longer patch it anymore or when "business" don't found it relevant to patch it anymore.

If OS/2 is open sourced, without having the source from IBM to do it, a lot of large customers will back away, simply because their IT group will not be able to say that "most of it is from IBM". Unfortunately, that is the mentality of large business, and open source doesn't impress them much, or they would already be using Linux. I am not too sure what the answer really is, but a careful migration to something new will need to be followed. Just throwing out the current kernel (for example), and replacing it with something new (if it was anywhere near to being ready), is not going to impress those who don't really know anything about software, but do know that IBM has a good name, but they don't know who built this new kernel. They won't be spending money for that, until it is proven to be reliable, and fully supported by some outfit that is a lot bigger than Mensys. (There will always be exceptions).

Don't get me wrong. A lot of the old stuff is going to need to be rewritten (preferably as open source, but even if it is kept private by a company like Mensys, it is still a good thing), just to keep it working, but a mass change, overnight, is not going to happen. Even a slow migration is going to take some effort from every user, and the race is on to see if eCS can stay with the mainstream hardware, and software. I don't believe that there is much hope of getting ahead of the mainstream (meaning windows, of course), unless some OS/2 user wins the biggest of the big lotteries, and donates it all to the cause.

Sigurd

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Re: What are Your real priorytes ?
« Reply #40 on: 2011.01.06, 09:32:24 »
Quote:
To be fair, Mensys has a business to run. They do need something to entice people to buy eComStation. They have also contributed a number of things to the OS/2 community. Without Mensys, OS/2 would have been dead, and buried, long ago. Those who seem to think they should have access to all that Mensys does, don't seem to understand how a business works. You pay for what you get, in one way or another, or the business goes out of business, and you get nothing. Look at what happened with SNAP,  BackAgain/2, FAXWorks (AKA PMFAX), and so on. Not enough business to keep the projects going. IMO Mensys has done a pretty good job, with minimal resources, and they do deserve some support for it, but they can't just give away the product.


Hi,

I personally do think it is right to say the thruth / facts /opinion even if it sounds critic or negativ - it is far better to just let all leave as it is and say "better stay quiet - we might make someone angry..."

I personally do think this:

WITHOUT THE COMMUNITY eCS / OS/2 would be dead for a long long time, there would have not been things like:

- GENMAC
- Updates to USB from Rudi (i.e.: USBCOM.SYS for USB 2.0; USBEHCD.SYS for Emperoar tv)
- Network Drivers by Nickk
- Wide screen driver, patch to Gengradd.sys (for Panorama)
- Testing on modern hardware (like i.e. Ed Durrant)
- QT4 and everything else started and maintained/mananged by Silvan Scherrer
- Every port made by Paul Smedley
- Everything made by Daniela Engert (DANIS, booting from USB ......)
- Organization of Warpstock (even if Mensys does took part in some for helping organization)
- Public Information / Notice / Howtos - i.e.: Pages like this one here (thanks to Martin for your good job!), os2.org, commtalk.de - the information about progress with eCS would be close to zero
- and so on and so on..... (sorry for not naming everyone here!)

When it comes to look at Mensys from a business point of view I have to state:

- The product promised and the one delivered (German still not) are not the same
- The main project is NOT working reliable - ACPI and Powermanagement - so the "NEW" product after six years of developement does only run really reliable without ACPI on hardware that should be about at least 3 to 5 years old - for this it is also possible to use MCP 4.52 - if you have a license for it
- The Advertising/Information to the public is cloose to zero, usually informations are given if there is coming some steam from the community.... as I mentioned before: Public Relation = Disaster
- todays most advantage of eCS2 over MCP 4.52 is that all the updates are included and the installer is modified. So it is more like a Linux Distro. I will personally try to update MCP 4.52 with all the availiable fixpacs around and build a bootable DVD, some kind of "my own OS/2 Distro" just to see, if it will work, and if - what are the differences left compared with eCS2
- Mensys makes the most profit with former IBM - OS/2 customers I guess, I guess also that eCS2 as a "startup" project without the OS/2 community - OS/2 customers behind it would have been a "no go", would have last only a year.
- Once these former OS/2 Customers will have to move to a different Operating System (because i.e. eCS2 is not reliable on MODERN Hardware) this road will be closed
- the only possible way for OS/2 to survive is as a community project, with as much Open Source parts as possible - excactly as Martin wrote. But I do fear as Doug as well that there are enough skille dpeople around - may be they are - but to many of them already left it behind. Unfortunately.
- And to SNAP - for me I can use it on modern Hardware very often much better then Panorama, still, because of this kind of "universal inbuild Vesa 3.0" - but this is running out as well....

This is just my opinion - yes - it is critic. I did often wrote cirtics - but not to slash down the eCS - OS/2 project - it was mostly the only way to get a response form Mensys at least.

So - you can open the fire on me now!

« Last Edit: 2011.01.06, 09:35:30 by Sigurd »

miturbide

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Re: What are Your real priorytes ?
« Reply #41 on: 2011.01.06, 15:29:59 »
DougB. You are right with your comments but having an open source clone is the first step that will open to doors to have players that offer support services for it.

Currently new users don't want to buy eCS mainly because OS/2 is a dead project (taking abotu the base OS improvement) There is only one company that offers support and IBM is not behind it.

Having an OS/2 open source clone will not warranty instant success but it will bring more options to have players behind it for support.

As long term plan strategy/idea/suggestion I haven't hear anything better than moving to open source.
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miturbide

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Re: What are Your real priorytes ?
« Reply #42 on: 2011.01.06, 16:11:35 »
Sorry to keep on this, but the "It is too late" statement is something I don't share at all.

There are some examples about this too. When the cell phone market was dominated by Nokia, blackberry and someother brands, people may think "It is too late for a new different cell phone" and Apple released the iPhone and was a success. When the smartphone market was dominated by Blackberry and iPhone's people may think "It is too late for a new operating system for smartphones" and Google comes out with Android and it is now the faster growing OS in that market. If you ask Apple they will say that iPhone is a good business, if you ask Google Nokia and RIM they will say the same.
And I also know examples in lower scale and outside the software market that had pulled the same results.

People tend to think success has a finite and limited space and that you had to take down someone away from success to occupy that space. While the truth is that success is a multidimensional place that can be occupy by a lot more people than we can think.

IT IS NEVER TOO LATE FOR ANYTHING and I hope to maintain this in 30 years when I get my crappy $200 monthly retirement check from the local government ;)
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RobertM

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Re: What are Your real priorytes ?
« Reply #43 on: 2011.01.31, 21:22:06 »
Actually gang, there is a LOT more going on behind the scenes than people would suspect. All I can say at this point is:

(1) Development (including in areas that many suspect cannot be worked on by anyone but IBM) is proceeding, with a LOT in the works

(2) There are, to this day, quite a few large companies in the United States STILL using OS/2 and eComStation - this of course helps us the OS/2 Community because they're buying from Mensys, which helps fund further development.

Heck, here in the NY Metro area, there are 3 MILLION people who come into contact with and use OS/2 and eCS every day (and don't even know it).

As a matter of fact, employees or contractors for some of these companies visit these forums (some have even asked a BUNCH of questions). One of the people in this thread, as s/he alludes to, works for one of the largest companies in this country. If you happen to be one of them, raise your hand!!! (No, don't worry, I know most of you cannot discuss who you work for, so feel free NOT to raise your hands... your secret is safe with me).

What I can say on that note is that I know of at least 3 Top 100 companies that use OS/2 and eComStation who happen to have visitors in these forums.

(3) An eCS 2.0 refresh is in the works

(4) Plans for major overhauls of numerous components, or creation of new components, are in the works. Some of them, you all have seen mentioned, such as Flash, AirBoot (which will end the problems getting Vista/Win7 to coexist with eCS), support for larger drives, easily maintainable NIC card support (with a LOT of cards supported), continued work on ACPI to both (a) support more hardware, and (b) provide better support for hardware, and (c) allow CPU throttling. Continued GUI enhancements are in the works, meaning some things that are very dated and should never have made it into OS/2 v2 (much less eCS v2) will finally get replaced.

There is a lot more, but right now I am not at liberty to discuss the other items. I do promise you all this though, for every other tidbit of information that I know or become aware of, as soon as I am permitted to discuss it, I promise you all that I will make a post here.

But right now, all I can say, is there is a LOT more development going on for eCS than anyone here could imagine (well, except for Roderick, Joachim and the rest of that gang of course).

As for the various posted wishlists/priorities... there are at least a few "impossible" things on those lists that can soon be crossed out (as well as a few not so impossible things).

Best,
Rob
« Last Edit: 2011.01.31, 21:26:52 by RobertM »
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