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RPM/YUM !

Started by CDRWSel, 2011.01.02, 17:45:00

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CDRWSel

I tried to install RPM/YUM used by some developer.

1/ Why to use install tool which has more than 50MiB and requires billable internet connection ?
  (not all PCs have internet connections - I only have one with internet and the second has none for a safe system.)
2/ This high disk space requirement is very bad on SSD MLC disk which needs lot a free space to preserve its life length (max of 10000 write per cells)
3/ After install of this tool, I never got it working ! nor Could I get program updates following all comments

Any program packaged with RPM/YUM should have a WPI corresponding build because RPM/YUM doesn't work on every system while WPI does and any update should be standalone installable.

What to do then ?
May be to stop use eCS if programs using this packaging are going to be generalized.  

aschn

Have you read http://svn.netlabs.org/qt4/ticket/181?

Dmitry explains in the second comment why he made that step.

Andreas

Pete

Hi

An attempt at some answers based on my limited knowledge of rpm:-

1] As a package management system it would require internet connectivity in order to check for and download any updates and dependencies for packages. Not sure if it can be pointed to a local source of updates/dependencies but, if it cannot, then maybe the code should be tweaked to have that capability.

2] I suggest you let those porting this package manager know by creating a report http://svn.netlabs.org/rpm

3] Are there any packages for this package manager to install/update yet?


I saw a post, possibly in an os2 newsgroup, that said words to the effect of: I will happily unpackage rpm installer packages and create zip files on hobbes from them.


My own view is that having a very capable package management system could be a good thing: No more starting an install only to find that other files are needed in order to get the software installed and/or working. Also this package manager should be able to check for, download and install updates to packages it has already installed.

It seems like it could be more capable package manager than Warpin currently is.

You may want to have a read through a brief discussion here http://svn.netlabs.org/qt4/ticket/181

1 of my concerns in the above discussion is that using rpm/yum may force users into having a specific (linux type) drive layout that some users may not want. I'm also not convinced by 1 of the arguments supporting the drive layout myself. Have a look at this section:

"An OS/2 user may ask: why should he install the software on the same drive where the bootable OS is? OS/2 is really small (500MB is usually enough for the OS itself), so that in case of a crash, he could quickly restore the boot drive contents from a backup ZIP file and have the software survived the crash and ready to use right away if it would reside on a different drive... The answer is that given the today's software which has a complex setup procedure (much more complex than the copy operation), reinstalling/restoring the OS will kill this setup anyway (because most bits of it go to the boot drive: look at config.sys statements, WPS objects, registry settings, system-wide text configuration files, system plugin DLLs and so on) and the software will need to be reinstalled too, despite the fact it's on the different drive -- just to refresh its integration with the newly installed OS."


The above looks very wrong to me: a good Backup should have all the settings from the boot drive that exist at the time the Backup was made and so nullifies the above argument.


My personal choice is to have a boot volume with apps and data stored on other volumes so I do not see rpm/yum as, currently, a package manager that I would want to use. That may change - if this rpm/yum port changes to allow me to install packages where *I* want.


Regards

Pete











David McKenna

Pete,

  The only package supposedly installable with YUM that I know about is ClamAV: http://web.os2power.com/yuri/ClamAV. I tried it but it wouldn't work :-(

  There are no 'end user' instructions on the Netlabs site yet so I guess it is not ready for general usage yet.

  My understanding is that you can install the package to any drive you want by setting the UNIXROOT=X: parameter in your CONFIG.SYS (X is the drive you want to use). Of course that means everything you install with YUM goes there...

Regards,

Dave McKenna

DougB

I too tried the ClamAV thing. It appears that there are parts missing.

My personal view is that is a program, or package, needs anything more than what Warpin provides, is not properly written. Why should any program need anything more than a few lines in CONFIG.SYS (preferably none), and/or, a few entries into an INI file, plus a location to put the files (preferably controlled by the user), and a few icons?

It seems that the biggest complaint about Warpin comes from developers who don't like the restrictions that WarpIn packers put on where parts of the package are to be put (they want to put stuff wherever they think it should be put, and lots of them totally disagree with the choices of other programmers). This would seem to be a totally bogus complaint, since there are a couple of very easy ways to bypass that, if they really want to do that. It appears that RPM/YUM is going to make that situation even worse.

ClamAV was adequately packaged in Warpin, and I don't see any possible way that using RPM/YUM will improve on that. In fact, the current experience is that it doesn't work. Something very basic is missing, and there doesn't seem to be any folders, or icons, created. That, in itself, makes RPM/YUM pretty much useless, IMO. Of course, all of that may be due to inexperience in setting it up (and I don't mean on my part - I shouldn't have to even think about things like that, if it is a proper installer).

One thing that I did find interesting, was that RPM/YUM comes packaged as a WarpIn installer. That, in itself, has to tell you something.

So far, I am not impressed, but I am willing to give it a try. I will NOT, however, be using it for packaging my own stuff, in the near future.

CDRWSel

#5
Yes, I read http://svn.netlabs.org/qt4/ticket/181 but we already have a nice WARPIN installer/uninstaller.
This one doesn't need an internet link on the PC where the WPI is going to be installed (this is very nice).

Really, I prefer download all dependencies from a connected PC (which could be windows or linux) and port it to the pc where I have the WPI package to install and have a light easy tool to use.

For those having internet connextion, the speed is going faster and faster and older link are been replaced buy modern fiber link with up to 100MB band wide.      

WPI can be download from a different PC having intenet link and save the file on an USB key or CD/DVD/BD
WPI can run programs etc... And WARPIN is very nice end user oriented program, easy to use, install updates/programs or uninstall them. No special skills required

Installer must light (less space on disk), very easy to use for home user which means End user oriented (not developer oriented). So is Warpin

I could read that Qt will only be package this way ! Then, i think it will push eCS into they last living days doing the same error IBM does in the past (ignoring end user with no software skills). How many time was spent on this not wanted and unfriendly tool..... 

Never stop use WPI package. Thanks

Cheers
Remy

melf

I don't know anything about RPM, but reacted negatively when I saw that java(?) would be packed in a new (unix-?)ported installer. I remember when Warpin was on its way to become the default os2 installer and now it is. Furthermore it is (from the end user perspective) very reliable, easy to use and understandable. I find it very odd to exchange it against non-native one. I'm no programmer but have hard to figure out what suddenly has become so complicated in new programs, so we have to "borrow" an installer from unix? Incidently I'm not very fond of the unix way to do and write things, so an installer talking unix would be bad in my opinion.
/Mikael

lewhoo

I'm really afraid of the RPM/YUM introduction into OS/2, as well as most of the possible OS/2 "unixings". Having to work every day on linux, I find it's directory structure very messy. RPM/YUM is convenient most of the time, when user does not want to interfere with his system, just plainly accept what he gets from automatic installers. However, not once I found out that I do not know the command I have to enter on the console to invoke the program which I just installed ;)

It starts to be painful when I have to find where the software was installed. It can be installed in several different directories, or not really replace the software it should replace, etc. For me it was many times problematic

Porting software from unix is one thing, but I'm afraid we are being pushed into "unixing" our OS/2 in other areas. In most cases I still use OS/2 (as eComStation) at home, because I don't to use anything linux-like...

ydario

Quote from: CDRWSel on 2011.01.02, 17:45:00
1/ Why to use install tool which has more than 50MiB and requires billable internet connection ?

You can download .rpm files from http://rpm.netlabs.org and put them into a local directory, then setup a new repository on your HD adding

[bootstrap]
name = Local Bootstrap Repository
baseurl = file:///drives/f/temp/rpmbuild/RPMS
enabled=1

to /etc/yum/yum.conf.

The wiki will be updated soon.

Yuri

CDRWSel

#9
Already tried but it does not work.
None of tried UNIX like tools didn't work under my system and this RPM/YUm doesn't work too.

Please hear us and provide WARPIN package.
Thanks

ydario

Quote from: melf on 2011.01.03, 00:23:48
I'm no programmer but have hard to figure out what suddenly has become so complicated in new programs, so we have to "borrow" an installer from unix? Incidently I'm not very fond of the unix way to do and write things, so an installer talking unix would be bad in my opinion.

rpm/yum already talks "os2" :-) it already handles config.sys, locked files, rexx scripts and WPS interface. It lacks a GUI now, but it will get one.
It installs software to UNIXROOT drive (or boot drive) by default, but if you are an advanced user you can make use of relocatable option and install where you want.

Yuri

CDRWSel

#11
Oh, you must now be an "advanced user" !
What a nice progress  >:(  

And as for answer: " I understand your point of view, but this will not change "

Ok you win. I stop developing ClamAVGUI
As I wrote, RPM/YUM doesn't work and from what I could see into repository directory on the web, It is going to be the end of eCS...   :'( :'(  
http://rpm.netlabs.org/release/00/i386/i386/

DougB

I think we have a major problem here. We have a more than adequate installer in WarpIn. It is small, easy to use (for both programmers, and end users), and more than adequate for whatever needs to be done (use a bit of REXX if the main program doesn't do what you want, or request that a new feature should be added). There is no reasonable excuse for using something that is overblown, and non intuitive to use. It also seems that RPM/YUM is going to force users to install software on their boot drive, unless they are "advanced users", and even then, it looks like it will need to be in some really messy UNIX type of directory structure (I already have a few of them, and I don't think any of them are good for anything). This is totally unacceptable.

QuoteYou can download .rpm files from http://rpm.netlabs.org and put them into a local directory,
Oh yeah, that is a great site. They can't even put a title on the page. Where do I find the package for ClamAV, and how do I extract it without using RPM/YUM? I need about 4 files, not a 30 some odd meg piece of junk software. ClamAV seems to be the only viable antivirus program left for OS/2, so it is necessary to use it.

I can see where anybody with a dialup internet connection, or pays by the byte, is going to be very unhappy.

QuoteIt is going to be the end of eCS...
Probably not, but there are going to be a LOT of ticked off users.

abwillis

I hope RPM/YUM will be more reliable on OS/2 than on Linux.  The primary thing that pushed my Linux systems to Ubuntu was that RPM/YUM would corrupt so easily. 

CDRWSel

#14
The bootstrap doesn't update config.sys nor does it add WPS objects.

Have a look hear about all rpm prepared packages !!!
http://rpm.netlabs.org/release/00/i386/i386/

You'll understand my comment about futur of eCS if they continue into this way...
All programs including eCS seems to be in plan to use RPM/YUM !

I had a look into clamav packages and all are going into $UNIXROOT$
I tried to find how to update an existing ClamAV installation but I didn't find every file and some of them can't be opened... Of course, no information is available about how to create a WPI from these files nor where to put files or what is the '1' and '2' referenced package etc... Realy, it is for very "Advanced user" which are familiar with UNIX / LINUX (my skills ont these 2 OSes = 0)

The simplified WARPIN installation process was a very big add-on to eCS.      

I think it is unacceptable to change installation process of a released operating system due this is a major change into product maintenance. Mays be it could be acceptable if it is going to be included into a futur eCS V3 or 2.1 in place of WARPIN (this requires eCS CD be reworked into this format) after many tests feedback and solving all bug like not working under some configuration etc...  but NEVER change existing install/uninstall tool on the fly of a released eCS version.

I realy prefer have better drives or long waited programs instead of this no requested UNIX based tool.

Cheers