Author Topic: SSD - eCS 2- Trimming  (Read 3648 times)

Sigurd

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 245
    • View Profile
SSD - eCS 2- Trimming
« on: 2011.01.04, 15:16:15 »
Hi,

is there anyone around using a SSD Harddrive with OS/2 - eCS? I wonder if there might be a trimming tool around or are there SSDs where this is not necessary anymore?

Thanks in Advance!

IBManners

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 196
    • View Profile
    • OS/2 Site
Re: SSD - eCS 2- Trimming
« Reply #1 on: 2011.01.04, 17:37:11 »
Hi Sigurd,

The new(er) SSD HD's shouldn't need a trimming tool, as this is taken care of onboard the SSD.
Or at least it is with the latest ones I've read about.

There is no trimming tool for OS/2 or eCS as far as I'm aware, I haven't even looked to see if
there is code available to compile, or even if each drive needs its own different trimming sw.

Have a look for info on Intel's website, there should be some info on this somewhere there.
Ditto some of the other providers of SSD's.

Cheers
IBM
I am the computer, it is me.

ivan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 593
    • View Profile
Re: SSD - eCS 2- Trimming
« Reply #2 on: 2011.01.04, 17:39:32 »
Hi Sigurd,

If by trimming you mean de-fragmenting then that is not recommended on SSD because the wear levelling firmware spreads everything all over the drive to even out cell use.

ivan.  

IBManners

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 196
    • View Profile
    • OS/2 Site
Re: SSD - eCS 2- Trimming
« Reply #3 on: 2011.01.04, 17:45:20 »
Hi Ivan,

I think the trimming he's talking about is were when a file is deleted in a SSD the space is not released
in the same manner as a file on a normal HD is.

Trying to keep it quick and simple.

Eventually the SSD becomes very slow and needs to have a trimming utility run to reallocate free space for re-use. If there is no trimming tool available then you normally have to reformat to regain the faster speed benefits of using an SSD.

Cheers

I am the computer, it is me.

ivan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 593
    • View Profile
Re: SSD - eCS 2- Trimming
« Reply #4 on: 2011.01.04, 18:45:42 »
In that case they must be some early ones.  We have clients that have SSDs just because they have lots of files added and old ones deleted all the time and no one has complained about any slowdown - in fact the comments have been about the speed increase over conventional HDs.

ivan

CDRWSel

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
    • View Profile
Re: SSD - eCS 2- Trimming
« Reply #5 on: 2011.01.04, 18:49:32 »
Hi,

I have 2 SSD since a long time and no performance issue. windows needs Trim support for single SSD as I could see performance degration without it but I never saw any performance degradation under eCS. My last benchmark was near 220MiB

Trim support is not needed while new SSD have integrated technology preventing drop of perf but which works not as good as Trim for windows (windows always does lot of write operation on the disk and many parametes have to be disable to reduce write processes) but good enough for other OS to maintain performance.

As you may know, windows trimming is not usable on SSD mounted in RAID mode.
Many very fast like PCIX SSD card have integrated RAID and do not support trim and it has no drop in performance.

Cheers
Remy

Sigurd

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 245
    • View Profile
Re: SSD - eCS 2- Trimming
« Reply #6 on: 2011.01.05, 09:42:53 »
Hi,

thanks for comments!

Finally I did choose this one, espacially because there is written that the Sandforce 1200 controller does have "Operating System independent Trim support inbuild" (can not proof this - suprise...):

http://www.chip.de/artikel/Corsair-Force-F120_-CSSD-F120GB2-SSD-Test_43429169.html

and will report if and how it will work with OS/2 Warp 4 and eComStation 2.
« Last Edit: 2011.01.05, 09:44:56 by Sigurd »

CDRWSel

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
    • View Profile
Re: SSD - eCS 2- Trimming
« Reply #7 on: 2011.01.05, 14:16:36 »
Very good,

I have a G.Skill SSD (before sandforce) but My eCS is on an OCZ SSD (Sandforce, same as yours but 40MB sized - OCz and Corsair have same base...)

Some recommendation:
I suggest you to have enough memory.
Disable swap use or put it to its minimum size.
change firefox settings to point temp files on an other type of disk or better, use RAMFS (like I do and give it M: letter like Memory :D ) with about 128MiB and change firefox settings to have the temporary internet files on it.
e.g.
1/ Enter "about:config"
2/ Add keyword  browser.cache.disk.parent_directory
3/ Add "string" M:\firefox_cache   (the specified temp directory is automatically created)

Restart FF.
For application using lot of temp files, change the TEMP default directory to an other disk
With these easy precaution, you SSD should work many many years without any problem     

Cheers
Remy
« Last Edit: 2011.01.05, 14:23:43 by CDRWSel »

rudi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
Re: SSD - eCS 2- Trimming
« Reply #8 on: 2011.01.05, 17:05:17 »
"Operating System independent Trim support inbuild" (can not proof this - suprise...):

As I understand it, the drive supports the ATA TRIM command. However, there has
to be "someone" issuing it. The only instance that would be able to do this is a file
system driver. But I would be very surprised if any of the file systems available on
OS/2 are doing this...


Sigurd

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 245
    • View Profile
Re: SSD - eCS 2- Trimming
« Reply #9 on: 2011.01.05, 17:37:11 »
@ to Remy: Thanks for this usefull hints!

@ to Rudi: The same to you!

This is what I am going to do, once the SDD will arrive:

Fortunately it is very easy to change the HDD in my Lenovo X200T (only one small srew). I will leave my 320GB 7.200 HDD as it is with Windows 7 Pro 64 and eCS 2 work for working issues, I read that these "normal" HDDs are more safe regarding Data stablility.
The new SSD was planned to be a "OS/2 - eCS only SSD" (Yes - you might say this is a kind of 'wasting' but for me it is not  ;) ), but regarding to Rudis Tip, I will leave about 4 GB for Windows XP for just using a Trim Software from Time to Time.

My target is to extend Warp 4 as much as possible (kernel, loader, drivers) to get it to run on the X200T from SSD inlcuding all the benefits I already tested with eCS 2 (SMP Mode, Stylus, LAN, WLAN, WWAN-UMTS, USB, Snap...) with the HPFS386 File System on Boot Drive. I will follow Remys hint with the RAMFS as well. The one thing missing will be ACPI/High IRQ - I am not sure if it will install without it, but I will give it a try. I may have to clone the system from another PC if necessary, and fortunately I can give IRQ's to the PCI lanes via the BIOS (otherwise eCS2 would not work "stable" either). Suspend / Resume does not work with ACPI and eCS2 either, so I will see.

If this is not going to work I will use eCS 2, may install it even though as second OS.

I wonder if this combination (If I can get it to run!) SMP, HPFS386, SNAP, SSD will show "the fastest OS/2 Warp I have ever seen" !?! ::)

"Warp 5 - Engage!"  .....  ;)

EDIT: Yes, I might have to think about the fact that HPFS386 is using a cache that might be not the optimum for SSD because of trimming, but it may be possible to place the cache in RAMFS?!....  First attempts are already in progress...
« Last Edit: 2011.01.05, 22:30:24 by Sigurd »

rudi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
Re: SSD - eCS 2- Trimming
« Reply #10 on: 2011.01.06, 11:13:01 »
but regarding to Rudis Tip, I will leave about 4 GB for Windows XP for just using a Trim Software from Time to Time.

I don't think that this is going to help. My understanding is that if a dedicated trim tool is used,
this tool has to know internals of the file system on the partition it is going to process. I.e. a trim
tool for Windows will most likely work only on partitions that use NTFS or FAT.