Author Topic: OS/2 Warp 4 (CP Merlin) NATIV on Lenovo X200T  (Read 5156 times)

Sigurd

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OS/2 Warp 4 (CP Merlin) NATIV on Lenovo X200T
« on: 2011.03.28, 13:29:53 »
Hi,

for those interested:

I updated an Merlin CP2 with UPDCD, with some fixpacs (Fixpac 5, TCPIP 2334, MPTS 8703, Kernel 104a_W4), updated drivers and so on to get an updated, bootable, installable OS/2 Merlin DVD.

- NO FILES FROM ECOMSTATION USED (I just installed the Intel LAN Driver to see if it works, it does ;-)  )

And guess what:

I started an installation on my Lenovo X200T (Core2Duo SL9600) in the docking station with an internal DVD burner:

It went thróugh without any issues! No problems with test.cfg and so on!!! (it was no "cloning" or something like this necessary, it was just "install")

I do have:

- Sound
- SNAP Grafis (no Panorama needed, SNAP shows 1280X800 true colour = native)
- USB
- LAN (with the Mensys Driver)
- JFS support
- Xworkplace with "tuning config.sys via Config.sys Editor)
- WLAN (I changed half a year ago to a Intel4965)

to say it short: everything seems to work fine! Even in AHCI mode - so far! (Installation was made in Compatibility mode)

I will give it more tests (HPFS 386, SMP from Warp Server, Stylus, and UMTS) during the week and finally will make a video about it next weekend, if hopefully everything will run ;-)

Disadvantage:

- There may be Interupt clashes because of NO ACPI (does not matter because eCS 2 ACPI did not work reliable on this Laptop as well)
- No Powermanagement (does not matter because eCS2 Powermanagement did not work reliable as well)

And important to me:

- I did not need Airboot Manager to install (DFSEE and IBM Bootmanager fit perfect the needs even alongside Windows 7 - as I mentioned several times before)
- No need to change any files (test.cfg or so on)
- installed "out of the box"
- SNAP does work, no need for Panorama
- UPDCD let me include the whole Bonuspac with Warp Guides as well (so I do have the full "Warp 4 feeling")
- Suprisingly after switching in BIOS back to ACPI there seem to be no difference (but I am sure I will find at least some ;-)  )
- it is running on a Corsair 2 SSD 120GB - it is that fast!!!!!!
- JFS support is inlcuded in MCP 2

Here is a link to a picture:

http://www.commtalk.org/FileRepository/ForumAttachments/99-78846-IMAG0400a.jpg

So, that's all - one can use even OS/2 Warp 4 MCP 2 on modern hardware......

:-)

Best to all of you!
« Last Edit: 2011.03.28, 14:16:45 by Sigurd »

ivan

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Re: OS/2 Warp 4 (CP Merlin) NATIV on Lenovo X200T
« Reply #1 on: 2011.03.28, 13:49:43 »
Sigurd, you have just proved what I have been thinking for some time - straight OS/2 installs on more systems than some people would believe.

ivan

Sigurd

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Re: OS/2 Warp 4 (CP Merlin) NATIV on Lenovo X200T
« Reply #2 on: 2011.03.28, 15:12:30 »
Hi Ivan,

yes - it proofed to me as well something I was thinking about for at least the last six years, and finally there it was. And it was not that difficult (as allways said from others).

And that raised new (in fact old) questions about what happend during the last six years to OS/2 - but for me I can leave it as it is.

I have got OS/2 Warp 4 running on modern hardware, I have to see if it will run reliable and usable in the next days, but I do have some hope from what I discovered till now - no crashes at all.

Ciao!

EugeneGorbunoff

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Re: OS/2 Warp 4 (CP Merlin) NATIV on Lenovo X200T
« Reply #3 on: 2011.03.28, 17:16:32 »
I don't understand what is the goal?

Is it historical review of IBM OS/2 Warp? Then this experiments are valuable for the community.

What is the reason to mention (kick) eComStation every time? Why do you separate the system to: IBM OS/2 Warp part and eComStation part? eComStation is a modification OS/2 Warp of 2011.
It's like compare John from kindergarden (1996) and school (2011). Both versions of John are good. John 2011 fully depends on John 1996. John 1996 doesn't exist anymore, he morphed to John 1997.

Again,
1) Sound - do you use IBM drivers? Or Uniaud developed for eComStation?
2) SNAP? old SNAP or SNAP developed for eCS?
3) Exigen USB or USB 2011?
4) LAN, Wifi - we all know the history of network drivers
5) Old JFS or eCS JFS?
6) xWorkPlace - was developed for eComStation users from eComStation budget

etc.

Main question - are you going distribute the image? Or distribute the scripts to generate it?

And the second question - do you have documentation for your updates? SVN server?

Pete

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Re: OS/2 Warp 4 (CP Merlin) NATIV on Lenovo X200T
« Reply #4 on: 2011.03.28, 17:18:43 »
Hi Sigurd

I very much doubt that your OS/2 system is using AHCI disk access. Why? - there is no OS/2 driver capable of doing that currently. You will probably find that danis506 has switched disk access to Compatibility despite BIOS setting.

You may be able to get the multiple cpus working using SMP kernel package and os2apic.psd


Regards

Pete

Pete

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Re: OS/2 Warp 4 (CP Merlin) NATIV on Lenovo X200T
« Reply #5 on: 2011.03.28, 17:28:59 »
Hi Eugene

Nice post defending eComstation but it has some mistakes:-

SNAP was never developed for eComStation. eComStation purchased a license to include a "cut down" version of the current SNAP build. The main difference is that with the full SNAP package you can simply power off the system change graphics card to a different card that has SNAP support and then boot without fannying around with the graphics driver. I would agree that it is possible that SNAP development would have stopped sooner than it did if eCS had not licensed it for inclusion in eCS.

xWorkPlace was not developed for eCS. eCS supplies eWorkPlace - a "cut down" version of xWorkPlace. I prefer to *not* install eWorkPlace during an eCS install and add in xWorkPlace after the eCS install has finished - and I doubt that I am the only person who does that.

Regards

Pete



EugeneGorbunoff

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Re: OS/2 Warp 4 (CP Merlin) NATIV on Lenovo X200T
« Reply #6 on: 2011.03.28, 18:10:34 »
SNAP was never developed for eComStation. eComStation purchased a license to include a "cut down" version of the current SNAP build. The main difference is that with the full SNAP package you can simply power off the system change graphics card to a different card that has SNAP support and then boot without fannying around with the graphics driver. I would agree that it is possible that SNAP development would have stopped sooner than it did if eCS had not licensed it for inclusion in eCS.

Several versions of SNAP were released for eCS users during 2005 and 2006, we got contacts with Scitech to develop ACPI driver.
http://ecomstation.ru/commentnews.php?id=1230


xWorkPlace was not developed for eCS. eCS supplies eWorkPlace - a "cut down" version of xWorkPlace. I prefer to *not* install eWorkPlace during an eCS install and add in xWorkPlace after the eCS install has finished - and I doubt that I am the only person who does that.

No, XWorkPlace was developed by the order of Serenity Systems. Is it based on XFolder class. The debugging of the extender continued during several years.

« Last Edit: 2011.03.28, 18:30:32 by EugeneGorbunoff »

miturbide

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Re: OS/2 Warp 4 (CP Merlin) NATIV on Lenovo X200T
« Reply #7 on: 2011.03.28, 19:15:23 »
As always, I don't understand Eugene Gorbunoff position.

Why is he defending eComStation if nobody is attacking it?

- Uniaud is open source. It can be used respecting the open source license.
- SNAP turned to freeware some years ago.
- xWorkplace is open source under GNU GPL license.
- USB 2011 drivers are free for download at hobbes.
- Intel LAN driver is also open source.

Eugene, It doesn't matter who paid for that ports, when it is open source you can use it respecting the open source license. No matter which OS it is, you can even port it to Windows and use it legally.

Eugene, is your reply part of your "eCS pirating paranoia" or just want to give credit to eComStation ?
Martín Itúrbide
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Open Source Advocate

Skype - martiniturbide
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Sigurd

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Re: OS/2 Warp 4 (CP Merlin) NATIV on Lenovo X200T
« Reply #8 on: 2011.03.28, 19:31:10 »
Hi Eugene,

yes - it might be painfull for you - but I was really able to kick ecomstation from my modern Hardware and replace it with OS/2 Warp 4!!!

That is really hard, isn't it?

Usually I would not answer to those questions, but you asked me to do so, here it comes (Yes and I know, there are others around that might be harmed by this as well, but this is not my intention - if you believe it or not - I was and am looking for a way to use OS/2 on modern hardware - did this with eCs2 for years now, as one can read and see at youtube....And I am as suprised as most of you!)

- Bye the way - just writing this with Firefox 4 and Warp 4 via WLAN from the Thinkpad!

- NO, there are no files of eComStation
- NO, there are no files from eCo Software too - and as I told you several times - there will be never ever one! you know why.
- NO, xworkplace was developed by Ulrich Möller - without him there would be nothing at all
- NO, WLAN drivers are developed by Willibald Meyer - no one else (GENMAC)
- NO, I allways recommend (read my instructions) to use SNAP 3.18 FULL version NOT the eCS one!
- NO, I do not need Panorama - SNAP is better by far - why should I sue it?
- NO, I do use the "original" USB drivers, one was updated (EHCI) by Rudi for Emperoar TV, wich I have a license for as well
- NO, I use the IBM JFS - no need for bootable JFS (it may be worth to read the text from Sjoerd Visser about JFS, especially how big the partition has to be berfore it makes sence to use JFS at all ( cache")
- NO, I do not need any kind of different bootmanager than the IBM Bootmanager (No Airboot and so on and so on)
- NO, with OS/2 Merlin my System is not getting hot, it is much more reliable, no crashes until now!! - thats really hard to believe, but it is the truth!, sad as it may be...
- NO, the installation went fluent without any errors!!!!
- NO, I do not use OS/4 kernel nor eCS kernel :-)

And most painfull:

I guess because of my experience with eCS2 and modern hardware I can tell you that all this is even for me hard to believe - I did this in my spare time, I guess a skilled one can do all this (update MCP2 with UPDCD) in about ONE day, so what did happen during the last six years???? These are the questions I did answer in other threads, and from now on I can even PROOF it!

But as I wrote before - i am not interested in these discussions any more - I already discovered for myself that Merlin is the better choice - and again - the eCS2 German is - after six years - still the "never come true project", allways rescheduled from time to time due to minor problems e.g. "Boot manager". And as I wrote before as well: this is the fact that makes me really said - what a waste of time and resources......

And I know there are people around who just want to say: what do you want? Leave it if you do not like it. Yes, I left ecs2 - I found a better one in the past!!

Strange, isn't it?

To Pete: I myself can not believe it: OS/2 Warp 4 Merlin DOES run with AHCI - I will show it in the video. but, as I said, installation has to be done in Compatibility mode.

And I am in contact with Zsolt Kaddar to fix one more issue I would like to have: integrate installation from USB - HOOOOO - one of the BIG STEPS FORWARD from Mensys - in fact it was Daniela Engert who just suggested to change two lines in config.sys........(remeber "Netbook times")

I do not want to persuade anyone to do anything, I just write what I for myself discovered and did. And it is great to have OS/2 Warp 4, the familiar and "beloved" interface on modern hardware :-)

« Last Edit: 2011.03.28, 19:48:57 by Sigurd »

EugeneGorbunoff

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Re: OS/2 Warp 4 (CP Merlin) NATIV on Lenovo X200T
« Reply #9 on: 2011.03.28, 20:08:05 »

> Martín Itúrbide wrote:
> - Uniaud is open source. It can be used respecting the open source license.
> - SNAP turned to freeware some years ago.
> - xWorkplace is open source under GNU GPL license.
> - USB 2011 drivers are free for download at hobbes.
> - Intel LAN driver is also open source.

yes, yes, yes, yes, yes


> Eugene, It doesn't matter who paid for that ports, when it is open source you can use it
> respecting the open source license. No matter which OS it is, you can even port it to Windows
> and use it legally.

yes


> Eugene, is your reply part of your "eCS pirating paranoia" or just want to give credit to eComStation ?

yes, I just want to give credit to eComStation.

"eCS pirating paranoia" - I don't understand what you mean. OS/2 World Forum moderators are protecting the developers of eCS shareware applications. I don't have claims.


Pete

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Re: OS/2 Warp 4 (CP Merlin) NATIV on Lenovo X200T
« Reply #10 on: 2011.03.28, 20:30:40 »
Hi Sigurd

If there is no OS/2 AHCI driver how do you think this is working?

As I understand it later builds of danis506.add can switch off AHCI and use Compatibility mode on some hardware - and this is what I suspect is happening here.

Regards

Pete

warpcafe

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Re: OS/2 Warp 4 (CP Merlin) NATIV on Lenovo X200T
« Reply #11 on: 2011.03.28, 20:37:53 »
Eugene,

what is your intention here?
This is "OS/2 World" - not "eComStation world".
You have to accept that many people stick with OS/2 - which is to some point also because eComStation progress has suffered some huge "pitfalls" which are mainly related to your way of doing project suboptimal management while on the other side producing nothing more than a lot of "hot air". In other words: Talk is cheap. Results count. You failed more than once on both ways.

I will say it politely (but I know you will NEVER understand):
Sometimes less is more.
Sometimes not saying anything says more than a thousand words.
And saves me from typing such a bullshit once again. Heck, you again managed to make me go crazy...

There are 3 ways for you to react to Sigurds post:
- nothing (that would have been nice!)
- say "Congrats - can you share your experience? (-> very constructive, positive, collaborative way)
- write a whole sermon of dipshit (worst case. but astonishingly that's what you did...)

Why can't you just leave people in peace, return to your desk,...
...and get your damn job done?

But I offer a resolution:
Should we compare the number of visitors of your (2, 3, 4 ?) sessions at Warpstock Europe versus the number of visitors of Sigurds (1) presentation? Think about that before you mess around here.

And did you want to show-off with that crap on "SVN"?
Why the heck should Sigurd put the stuff on a SVN? It is all documented in his post - standard stuff. No need for SVN.
I remember the last time I "updated" ACPI. There were lots of OUTDATED BACKLEVEL parts in it. And YOU dare talking about SVN?
Heck, you can't even pack the right files in a ZIP!!
Why didn't you ask Sigurd for his Hudson CI setup while we're at it? JFC.

Finally, looking at the time it took you to "flame" around here... it could have been invested much better:
I am still waiting for your session descriptions for WSE2011. See my email.

Cheers,
Thomas
"It is not worth an intelligent man's time to be in the majority.
By definition, there are already enough people to do that"
- G.H. Hardy

RobertM

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Re: OS/2 Warp 4 (CP Merlin) NATIV on Lenovo X200T
« Reply #12 on: 2011.03.28, 21:06:03 »
xWorkPlace was not developed for eCS. eCS supplies eWorkPlace - a "cut down" version of xWorkPlace. I prefer to *not* install eWorkPlace during an eCS install and add in xWorkPlace after the eCS install has finished - and I doubt that I am the only person who does that.

No, XWorkPlace was developed by the order of Serenity Systems. Is it based on XFolder class. The debugging of the extender continued during several years.

IIRC, Ulrich was working on xWorkPlace before SS approached him. It was smarter and easier for him to make a new package with xFolder as a subset instead of making the additional xWorkplace features a subset of xFolder. eWorkplace is a subset of xWorlplace.

Similar timeline also applies to eStyler/Styler2.

Sadly, even though they are ideal for the general/new OS/2 user, both (eWorkplace/eStyler) are limited in comparison to their OS/2 releases.

That aside, there are pros and cons to all the arguments presented here. Sigurd and most of the rest of us are not the common OS/2 user. Nor are we some poor Windows tech who is stuck supporting legacy OS/2 setups for large companies. Those people will not be able to go through the steps that Sigurd (or others of us) have went through to get OS/2 ACP/MCP working on newer systems.

On top of that, there are systems where ACP/MCP will NOT work on, or will NOT work on properly. These are systems that MUST have a working ACPI setup to run or run properly. A good example are the two IBM eServer xSeries 440 units we have. WSeB CP2 PF will install fine on them (for someone knowledgeable on OS/2), BUT, hyperthreading will NOT work, neither will more than two CPUs - the machine supports SIXTEEN CPUs. Though the machine supposedly follows the MP1.4 spec, it does NOT. There are too many variances in how it operates for more than 2 CPUs to allow OS2APIC to properly recognize and initialize the CPUs. For these systems, eCS v2 is the ONLY option to get full capabilities out of the machines - otherwise, people are limited to *2* CPUs instead of *16* CPUs. So, yes, WSeB will run on them, and run very darn well - but at 1/8th the capabilities of the machine. That's with every non-eCS fixpack and update to the OS, drivers, kernel, etc. There is something in the setup that requires ACPI to properly function.

So, in scenarios like that, it does NOT matter how one updates the WSeB/MCP/ACP disks... without the subsequent updates that eCS v2 has, those systems will NOT be fully utilized. In others, yes, updating MCP/ACP may indeed result in a fully operational system.

But that brings us back to the point at hand. One cannot say that "eCS is not necessary... one simply needs to update ACP/MCP with UpCD" just as one cannot say that "eCS is necessary for all newer hardware because MCP/ACP cannot be gotten to work with them"

NEITHER is true of all scenarios. EITHER only apply to CERTAIN scenarios for CERTAIN hardware. It is really senseless to argue EITHER point as a "be all, end all, one size fits all" scenario, because doing so would not be correct or accurate.

And for those of you who cannot stop to think about the VAST difference in your experience installing using OS/2 or eCS in comparison to the tens of thousands of corporate installs STILL running that get supported by some Windows tech who really knows nothing about computers - much less OS/2, I recently was engaged in a support email situation where one such tech couldn't figure out how to install network drivers for an OS/2 installation (one that was otherwise working fine). Even with DETAILED, SPECIFIC instructions that applied to his EXACT setup, the machine is (by the end of our communications) STILL not networked - TEN days. You guys and I could tie one hand behind our backs, close both of our eyes, take a nap and install the drivers for this particular card at the same time.

...ok, maybe we'd have to have at least one eye open and be awake to do it, but you get the point. For someone like those people, even if they are WONDERFUL Windows Techs (as this guy probably was), eCS is really the only viable option.

Everyone here can argue back and forth based on their experiences... but like any product, or any service, our experiences do not necessarily apply to all hardware, or to the experiences of those who are doing the work. Kinda makes it senseless to come to such conclusions on EITHER side of this figurative fence, doesn't it?
« Last Edit: 2011.03.28, 21:53:13 by RobertM »
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Sigurd

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Re: OS/2 Warp 4 (CP Merlin) NATIV on Lenovo X200T
« Reply #13 on: 2011.03.29, 08:44:32 »
Hi Sigurd

If there is no OS/2 AHCI driver how do you think this is working?

As I understand it later builds of danis506.add can switch off AHCI and use Compatibility mode on some hardware - and this is what I suspect is happening here.

Regards

Pete


Hi Pete,

it may be as you suggest - I guess I am not skilled enough to find the reason, but this seems to me to be logical. It is even more strange: in Compatibility mode I can not use WLAN - if I switch to AHCI I can use it...

There seems to be some interupt clashes (as I wrote in the first mail), I do have to do more testing here, but a lack of time. I guess after next weekend I can say more about it. Fortunatley the BIOS of the X200T let my specifiy PCI Lane IRQ by hand and it may be worth (regarding WLAN) to disable Speedstep in BIOS: Hm. I will see.

WLAN and Sound are sharing the same IRQ, as well with one UHCI controller, I have to see what to do there. In AHCI those work, but there seems to be the Mousepointer "jumping" from time to time - it may be a result of using an SSD - it may be to fast at all in AHCI mode, so that it is to fast to handle the input given by the Trackpoint.

By the way: eCS2 did have these IRQ problems as well, with and without ACPI support, WLAN sometimes usable, sometimes not - USB Modem sometimes usable, sometimes crashes (50/50 chance).

I will try the new USB drivers from Lars Erdmann in this environment as well.

And to this question: I only use "free availiable" drivers, as Martin stated, I share (see Installation reviews for netbooks, for eCS2 alongside Windows 7 , the youtube movies and so on) all my knowledge and investigations all FOR FREE (and so it will be in the future as well). For eCS 2 German - promised since years, never came true - just read that at Warpstock there will be a presentation about eCS 3 (!!!).0 - I did pay several times SSS......

Therefore I wrote I will leave it as it is.



melf

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Re: OS/2 Warp 4 (CP Merlin) NATIV on Lenovo X200T
« Reply #14 on: 2011.03.29, 11:33:17 »
Thanks Robert for your sensible and knowledgeable comments.
/Mikael