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How relevant is the .inf format?

Started by miturbide, 2011.10.10, 16:20:25

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miturbide

Sure that for the general tech market the OS/2 .inf help format is complete irrelevant. But how relevant is this format for the OS/2-eCS community?
Compared to PDF, what are the advantage and disadvantage of the .inf format ?
What about the .hlp files?

From my side I'm leaning more to the idea that PDF and Lucide can replace the .inf and Newview/view without losing much.

I want to hear the comments of something like "Information Presentation Facility" vs "PDF"

What do you think?
Martín Itúrbide
OS2World.com NewsMaster
Open Source Advocate

Skype - martiniturbide
Google Talk - martiniturbide@gmail.com

melf

Hi Martin,
I mostly prefer the newview-help before pdf. I think that the great advantage of *.inf *.hlp files (what is the difference by the way?) is that you can get online help. Just press F1 and you get the relevant information, for your present problem. It is also good to have complex information structured in different searchable parts, however sometimes it had been easier to have a better overview. So my opinion:


1. I appreciate the online help, F1, pointing to the relevant info.
2. I like the possibility to view a chosen part of complex information.
3. A "view all" button (showing all in the topic as a scrollable (and searchable) text) on newview would make me completely satisfied.

But of course, well structured pdfs, with headings in the left panel could be good enough for points 2 and 3, while missing opportunities to make bookmarks and notes (haven't used them myself- but that feature could be helpful).
/Mikael

Radek

INF has been developed as a help file format. It has a "tree structure" of pages so that it allows a structured contents. It is independent to fonts so that you can use a small font and have a small help window displayed along with the app. Moreover, you can write IPF files yourself and create INFs. You can also "disassemble" and patch an existing INF, then compile it anew.

You cannot do all this with a PDF. As long as the PDF has an index, you can use the PDF like an INF, well, you cannot update it, well, the window cannot be small because you usually cannot set a PDF font. Well, the index is often missing, even if the PDF has, for example, 2400 pages (wxWidgets reference). Using such PDF is a pain. IMO, PDF isn't a match for INF nowadays and it won't be a match as long as we won't have a good PDF editor.

As to HTML, I think the major problem with HTML is its structure. HTML is not a help file format. Well, you can write a wiever, which displays a tree, an index and the contents of individual "pages" but you cannot split these parts completely. You will always have a "toc" of some kind among the "pages" unless the HTML has no "toc" at all.

miturbide

thank for the replies.

Radek thanks for bringing HTML to the attention. It should be me  "Information Presentation Facility" vs "PDF" vs "HTML".

- For plain documentation reading like if it was a book, a well structure PDF with bookmarks on the left will do it for me.
- For F1 quick help on the window/program you are located and PDF will not be the optimal one.

It seems that more of a mix between the browser, XML and HTML can be better competitor for the Information Presentation Facility under OS2-eCS.

The Eclipse help platform looks nice, it loads the browser and seems to run an http service to show the help (see picture - Lotus Notes Help). 
Example: http://help.eclipse.org/indigo/index.jsp

But for F1 help eclipse puts a window inside the application (eclipse application) to show an specific related HTML page or related topics links.

..just throwing thoughts to the air.
Martín Itúrbide
OS2World.com NewsMaster
Open Source Advocate

Skype - martiniturbide
Google Talk - martiniturbide@gmail.com

jep


HTML sounds nice, but not until the "browser" (firefox) and the "browser engine" (gecko + ? ) has been separated and Kompozer/Thunderbird/Firefox/Seamonkey/BlueGriffon/HelpViewer just can load and share the same "engine" to render the page in a similar fashion to the old ibm web browser dll (Object Desktop Help + ???) and the chrome component within QT4 in Arora.

warpcafe

Hi,

for me, there's two sides of the story:
While the INF/HLP format is preferrable for anything related to online-help, I hate it when it's bieng used in a "readme" kind of way.
The reason for it is that I often find myself coming across some intersting piece of software while sitting in front of a non-OS/2|eCS system.
This is the very moment when I can't read detailed information about the software (to check its suitability) because of the INF/HLP format.

I will summarize my preferred formats here:
- online information: HTML
- static documents / for print, D/L: PDF
- readme and cross-platform information: plain text ASCII files
- context-sensitive help in applications: HLP/INF

The answer to the format question is: It depends on what you want to use it for. ;)

Cheers, HTH,
Thomas
"It is not worth an intelligent man's time to be in the majority.
By definition, there are already enough people to do that"
- G.H. Hardy

Blonde Guy

When I generate the help files for Suntan Special, I use a script that creates both IPF (which then compiles to INF) and HTML from a template. That way, I can have both. I use PDF for the printed manual. I post the HTML on my website, but allow downloading of the INF.

I don't like reading PDF much. I like Lucide better than the Adobe reader. I'll agree that there are good and bad examples of each format, but for me, a well constructed HTML or INF is much better than PDF.

PDF is really for transportable printing. It's really good for that.
Expert Consulting for OS/2 and eComStation

Andi

Quote from: warpcafe on 2011.10.10, 22:16:31
.... find myself coming across some intersting piece of software while sitting in front of a non-OS/2|eCS system.
This is the very moment when I can't read detailed information about the software (to check its suitability) because of the INF/HLP format.
...
Probably docview included in http://sourceforge.net/projects/fpgui/ will help.

Also there's an old Win31 view program which I used before.

aschn

#8
In addition to the formats Thomas has listed, I see following
differences (between the formats):



  • Support with help file creation (e.g. the IPF compiler has
    commands for index creation)

  • Search facilities (INF/HLP is still the best, IMO). M$'s Compiled
    HTML (CHM) format is usable, PDF is slow and multiple HTML files
    can't be searched.

  • The formatting facilities are different: IPF is plain and INF/HLP
    files look outdated. IMO regarding formatting in help files, less
    is best in most cases.

  • Help file creation (e.g. I don't like the IPF language).  

  • PDF is the only format that was designed for printed media, but can
    be used for other docs as well.

Because PDF viewers usually take a longer time to start and
because of the slow search, I don't like it for docs. INF/HLP
wins for me.

Andreas

abwillis

Docview was based off of NewView initially, and seems to work on Linux, Windows, and FreeBSD.  I heard about it in the OpenWatcom groups as there is now an INF compiler that is part of OpenWatcom as well which is cross-platform.

dgclark

Quote from: miturbide on 2011.10.10, 20:20:24
thank for the replies.

It seems that more of a mix between the browser, XML and HTML can be better competitor for the Information Presentation Facility under OS2-eCS.

The Eclipse help platform looks nice, it loads the browser and seems to run an http service to show the help (see picture - Lotus Notes Help). 
Example: http://help.eclipse.org/indigo/index.jsp

But for F1 help eclipse puts a window inside the application (eclipse application) to show an specific related HTML page or related topics links.

..just throwing thoughts to the air.

The Eclipse help system looks like it is based on the help system which first appeared for DB2 and VAC++ V 4.0. In some ways this is a very good help system, but it also has some major disadvantages

Advantages
-----------------
1. You are using a browser, so you can cut/paste and print easily
2. Simple HTML is an easy language (tagging system) so that it is easy to write documentation
3. Cross platform

Disadvantages
---------------------
1. It uses a browser to display the help. Browsers change frequently and a very slow to load
2. When using the system the TOC on the left can become out of sync with the help topic shown in the right. This happens when clicking on a link in the right panel that goes to another HTML file. The left/right arrow in the icon bar at the top is the manual way to resync the two side.
3. The IBM system does have a facility for searching across help files (html files) but it is cumbersome.
4. Likewise cross references can be a pain to write
5. For developers - The help "system" includes a number of components that must be configured correctly. That has created problems for the users.

My feeling is the best combination for on-line help is INF / Newview. The best printed documentation is in PDF format.

If you are writing documentation correctly, the on-line help will be different from the printed manual. But very few independent developers or companies have the resources to make both.