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eCS - User Experience Suggestions

Started by miturbide, 2011.12.11, 05:42:38

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sparrac

Quote from: EugeneGorbunoff on 2011.12.12, 19:23:56
* XWorkplace is native. It's opensource because Serenity/Mensys paid enough money for the development.

AFAIK, XWorkPlace was opensourced by Ulrich Moeller BEFORE the existence of eComStation as XFolder.

Sources of XFolder (1999/06/15) in Hobbes:

http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/apps/wps/xfolder/xfld085s.zip

EugeneGorbunoff

I look at the spreadsheet with the list of OSS software,
I see some medium *native* opensource programs: Cameraderie, Doodle screensaver.
(ex-shareware: PM123, WO!, ..)
So, there are examples of native opensource programs. It's an exclusion! :)



My main idea:

1) eCS (OS/2) is alive thanks to the developers of shareware / commercial apps.
(and alive thanks to porting of open source software).
* This developers can spend some time to free/open source apps
* The resellers can sponsor free/opensource development

2) Major part of new complex features and applications will be shareware (closed source) by default
(and free / open source if somebody pays real money to the developer).

3) Money is the fuel for developer. You can run on internal resource
during 1 or 3 monthes and create small program.
To develop medium or large program you need real fuel.


Conclusion:
No need to discriminate eCS apps with closed source.
Major part of *native* apps will be closed.
Major part of new significant changes in User interface will be closed.
Because there is no sponsor, no external sponsor. No bank which can support the developers.
Any developer which starts work on UI or other complex program,
will distribute the extension as shareware. Because the development
and debugging of native program requires hundreds of hours.
This is my opinion.

miturbide

Eugene your conclusions are limited to your point of view. Your strategy will never attract new users or developers to the platform. Open Source do no mean "work for free"... YES the developer needs money, but he is not going to make money on this platform with shareware software either. Stop thinking that making a software and charging a software license for it will automatically pay the developer expenses.

ok, I get frustrated too much with Eugene since he lives in his own eCs reality distortion field. Keep your own agenda like always.

Why don't keep discussing the User Experience wishlist for eComStation.  Thanks Sigurd for your comments.

Martín Itúrbide
OS2World.com NewsMaster
Open Source Advocate

Skype - martiniturbide
Google Talk - martiniturbide@gmail.com

Sigurd

Hi Martin,

once I read my lines again it seems to me that I may lost the focus on the GUI and your question a bit, sorry for this, as I wanted to express why I do still prefer a special GUI, the one of Warp 4.

But I would like to add: the time I tried to get the EEE Slate tablet to run with eCS - OS/2 I had a plan to use a different GUI with it, one that would make it easier to use it as and more look like a tablet. I already looked out and found this programm here:

http://os2.zworks.de/Hoppla/eng/index.html

that seemed to me to be worth a choice to test it as the "overlaying" OS/2 GUI for the tablet, as it allows bigger Symbols, is customizeable and so on. Unfortunately I had to give - as mentioned before - up with the EEE Slate for Driverreasons and latley 4 weeks after I bought it - to send it back and to get my money back from amazon.
But this idea is still in my mind - once I will be able to use the hardware of a tablet with OS/2 or eCS reasonable I will try to get this software to work. The Samsung Slate 700 has got the advantages that it comes (like the EEE Slate) with both: Stylus and Finger support.
Besides the other facts I do have some hope here :-)

miturbide

Thanks Sigurd for your reply.

If we talk about PC computers (with mouse an keyboard), even that I like the Warp 4 GUI, I still think that "the navigator" (recommendation #3) is very useful, and it is even the standard on all other desktop OSes. We generally need to surf between folder and subfolders to get into the files and opening and closing window by window I feel it like it is not optimal.

But for tablets there is other history which I haven't think off and you bring a good topic. From what I had seen in iOS, Android, WebOS, the idea is not having a complex file ordering system like the desktop PC. (or at least hide the complexity). On a tablet it is harder (but possible) to surf around the files with the finger touch.

For tablets with OS/2 it is possible a good idea to have a mascaraed application icons on an alternative desktop application. Maybe like the Lenovo SimpleTap (I haven't seen Win8 Metro to compare the idea). uhm... maybe combining suggestion #9 to organize the user files with a app clone like Lenovo SimpleTap we will have a nice tablet solution...possible.
Martín Itúrbide
OS2World.com NewsMaster
Open Source Advocate

Skype - martiniturbide
Google Talk - martiniturbide@gmail.com

RobertM

Quote from: miturbide on 2011.12.12, 21:51:46
Eugene. Don't expect making money selling native software either (talking in the short term future), there is no "economical reason" and "conditions" to buy software for eCS-OS2 also. We are not living on the 90's where everybody was making money selling licenses. The eComStation village is not enough for make a living selling software as a developer.


Probably not 100% accurate, but very close. There are vertical market areas where one can make a small fortune developing for eCS/Warp. But that requires getting contacts at the right companies, lots of ground up coding, and often specialized driver coding, for the likes of various transit systems, beverage companies, etc - who still very extensively rely on OS/2 to get things done (but no longer have programming contacts to add enhancements to code or improve existing code).

Now of course, the chances of fighting one's way through to the right people is slim to none, so, it's probably a moot point.


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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RobertM

Quote from: EugeneGorbunoff on 2011.12.13, 13:06:10

My main idea:

1) eCS (OS/2) is alive thanks to the developers of shareware / commercial apps.
(and alive thanks to porting of open source software).
* This developers can spend some time to free/open source apps
* The resellers can sponsor free/opensource development

eCS is alive HERE (where I work) because of Paul Smedley, Dink, Kyo, Peter Moylan and a few others. While I do contribute to Paul and Peter when possible, they release the stuff free.

But this brings us back to largely open source apps (and largely from Paul).

Quote from: EugeneGorbunoff on 2011.12.13, 13:06:10

2) Major part of new complex features and applications will be shareware (closed source) by default
(and free / open source if somebody pays real money to the developer).

And I am still waiting on updates to Styler/2, Pixel, xFile, Describe, LDGW and others. How much longer do you think I will be waiting for these paid/shareware apps to be updated?

Quote from: EugeneGorbunoff on 2011.12.13, 13:06:10
3) Money is the fuel for developer. You can run on internal resource
during 1 or 3 monthes and create small program.
To develop medium or large program you need real fuel.

Fortunately, I dont think that's what's driving people like Paul (I sure as heck know the pittances I send him don't amount to what his work deserves).

Quote from: EugeneGorbunoff on 2011.12.13, 13:06:10
Conclusion:
No need to discriminate eCS apps with closed source.
Major part of *native* apps will be closed.

Sadly if that's the case. That aside, exactly what "major native apps" do you see that are being worked on (or will be worked on)? I know of none.

Quote from: EugeneGorbunoff on 2011.12.13, 13:06:10

Major part of new significant changes in User interface will be closed.

Which part is this? And since closed, and thus implying money being paid, WHY is money being wasted on UI changes? With the recent file dialog changes, the GUI is quite very functional. People bought OS/2 because "it just works". Current business customers are buying eCS because their ancient OS/2 systems "just work" - they don't give a rats ass about making the UI all pretty like Windows 7.

There isn't really a new class of customers waiting out there to buy eCS because "it looks pretty" - that's thus money that can be better spent.

The ONLY area I can see where it would be wanted AND HELPFUL AS A SELLING POINT is in trying to regain portions of the ATM market - but even then, the stuff is largely custom app interfaces that are unrelated to the WPS.

Quote from: EugeneGorbunoff on 2011.12.13, 13:06:10

Because there is no sponsor, no external sponsor. No bank which can support the developers.
Any developer which starts work on UI or other complex program,
will distribute the extension as shareware. Because the development
and debugging of native program requires hundreds of hours.
This is my opinion.


Yes, yes it is your opinion - though your priorities are a little strange.


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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RobertM

Quote from: miturbide on 2011.12.13, 16:08:48
For tablets with OS/2 it is possible a good idea to have a mascaraed application icons on an alternative desktop application. Maybe like the Lenovo SimpleTap (I haven't seen Win8 Metro to compare the idea). uhm... maybe combining suggestion #9 to organize the user files with a app clone like Lenovo SimpleTap we will have a nice tablet solution...possible.

I'm wondering how OS/2 fared (usability wise) on tablets back in the day... y'know, when IBM released it on tablets. Always wanted to try one for more than the ten seconds I did at a friend's house.


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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os2monkey

Quote from: miturbide on 2011.12.11, 05:42:38


Since the end of 2010 eComStation users started putting on their wishlist that the eCS GUI require more love (improvements).



Well in my case I actually returned to ECS because I got tired of all the gui changes on Linux. Gnome 2 vs gnome 3 are completely different animals, and I don't see the point - just reinventing the wheel when it wasn't broken and requiring users to work different then they are used to.
So I would be open to some small enhancements but major changes would be a turn off to me, personally.

jdeb

Quote from: os2monkey on 2012.01.04, 20:49:56
Quote from: miturbide on 2011.12.11, 05:42:38


Since the end of 2010 eComStation users started putting on their wishlist that the eCS GUI require more love (improvements).



Well in my case I actually returned to ECS because I got tired of all the gui changes on Linux. Gnome 2 vs gnome 3 are completely different animals, and I don't see the point - just reinventing the wheel when it wasn't broken and requiring users to work different then they are used to.
So I would be open to some small enhancements but major changes would be a turn off to me, personally.


That has been my experience as well. I think from a major distro standpoint, Mint and Slackware were holding steady with the older GUI. Unity and Gnome 3 remind me of an Smart Phone. Everything seems to headed in that direction and I hope eCS does not follow suite.

I think my wishlist would be...

* Better / more documentation that is organized

* Accelerated drivers for newer video cards

* Flash video working seamlessly within a browser

* Current / updated Malware / rootkit (tech tools) scanner that can be used when plugging in a hard drive with a usb/sata adapter.

* Flight Simulator

* Better SMP support


Foxconn P41A-P, Intel E7500, 2 GB DDR2 800, ATI X300, ADATA Sata II 64 GB SSD, 160GB WD Sata II HD, Intel Pro 100/1000, Antec Basiq 350W PS, Antec 300 Case, ECS 2.1