Author Topic: US Pulls Plug on Low-CO2 Powerplant Project  (Read 8389 times)

Saijin_Naib

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Re: US Pulls Plug on Low-CO2 Powerplant Project
« Reply #15 on: 2008.02.05, 04:31:56 »
Robert, like you, I dislike hybrids. However, going straight out hydrogen (the only viable course in my eyes) is years off, necssitating a complete rework of the fuel and energy infrastrucutre of the US. Hybrids serve as a good stop-gap measure and a means to slowly get people accomodated to the differences that hybrid/alt fuel vehicles will bring. Still, they are a stop-gap, a way to ease the transition. We can not get complacent and not progress to alt-fuel, this must be a transition period only, no more.

sdennis

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Re: US Pulls Plug on Low-CO2 Powerplant Project
« Reply #16 on: 2008.02.05, 14:11:34 »
Everyone should know them. Knowledge of these techniques negates their effectiveness, putting you back in power.

Very well put, Ben.

If only more of us stateside would pay more attention to what's being done to us instead of wondering what Britney Spears is going to do next, perhaps this place wouldn't be going to hell in a handbasket.

Your post made me think of Occam's Razor.  If only more people were as succinct as you in their thoughts. :)

--Sean
OS/2: Shuts gates, opens windows.

RobertM

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Re: US Pulls Plug on Low-CO2 Powerplant Project
« Reply #17 on: 2008.02.05, 19:13:29 »
Everyone should know them. Knowledge of these techniques negates their effectiveness, putting you back in power.

Very well put, Ben.

If only more of us stateside would pay more attention to what's being done to us instead of wondering what Britney Spears is going to do next...

--Sean

Woah, what? What's Britney doing next? Did I miss something?!?!?!  :o

Seriously though, excellent points, both of you.

Here's something to consider (as I've read both sides of the Britney Spears global warming debate), with what is being described here as a naturally occurring "phenomena" (I hate the use of that word because we simply dont understand something), wouldn't our impact on global warming be even more important?

To me, it's not whether we caused the problem, but that the problem is a cycle (in that the more CO2 from the ocean, the hotter the climate, meaning more CO2 released from the ocean), thus our contribution may be exacberating the normally occurring phenomena since it is feeding into a cycle. I'd prefer to see how our "involvement" impacts the normal cycle of such things - and thus be able to better determine how negligible (or not) our impact is... but there seem to be varying conflicting studies on that as well. Leaving me no one to believe. Some can be dismissed outright obviously - but the problem I have seen is that some on both sides are funded by those who benefit from the answer such as Way-Out-There-Environmentalists on our impact on the scenario on one side, and the Coal Industry on the other.

Too many questions, too much propaganda and not enough facts....
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Ben

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Re: US Pulls Plug on Low-CO2 Powerplant Project
« Reply #18 on: 2008.02.05, 20:43:25 »
Everyone should know them. Knowledge of these techniques negates their effectiveness, putting you back in power.
Very well put, Ben.

If only more of us stateside would pay more attention to what's being done to us instead of wondering what Britney Spears is going to do next, perhaps this place wouldn't be going to hell in a handbasket.

Your post made me think of Occam's Razor.  If only more people were as succinct as you in their thoughts. :)

--Sean
Thanks, Sean.

However, I have to add that this whole thing is tied into the global agenda and is not tethered souly to the U.S. It will effect, and is effecting, everyone, everywhere. Their plans are the same, their means are the same, with local variations. They speak about it in their own books, and amongst themselves, and laugh at us for being so easily conned.

The problem is, through the use of all media, (keep in mind that media is the fourth estate of government, which means a branch of the government), they've retarded the human instinct for self-preservation that would normally have us up in arms and fighting mad at what they are doing to us as a species. (George Bush senior once told a reporter that "They would hang us from the lamp posts  if they knew what we had done"). [Why would he say that? What are they up to?]. But they figured out a long time ago, that if they could move slaughter and mayhem into our everyday life, and make it normal, that we would loose the instinct to protect ourselves.

This has been accomplished.

The elite, (and in particular, the UN), take polls every year. One of them was designed to see if the masses would follow the government and, to what point.

The results of these polls indicate that most people, (87-93% depending on the poll), at this point in time, would blindly follow the government in any direction that it leads them even over a cliff! Just like lemmings. All the time refusing to believe anything serious or detrimental is happening to them in their lovely, protected world, until just before they impact at the bottom... which is too late to do anything other than to wheeze out a brief scream. But you see, the people are not being protected; they are being fattened.

As long as the people have what Lord Bertrand Russell termed "enough bread and circuses" the lack of which he attributes as the cause of the downfall of the Roman Empire, people do not care what their government is doing. Whether it's slaughtering innocent couples and their familiies, old ladies and babies in their cribs, people will sit in front of the box watching it all unfold as entertainment, having their brains sucked out, as they suck in the pablum.

This leaves the remaining 13-7% who still have free thought and the survival instinct, to do something about it. A tough job to say the least. But definitely do-able.

And make no mistake about it, if people knew what was really going on, they would jump into their cars, and run down every GD politician and Corporate Fascist that they could find, for the oaths of these monsters, are not to the people, but to their own group to the exclusion and detriment, of all others. This means to the detriment of you and me.

There's some more food for thought... and it ain't pablum.
« Last Edit: 2008.08.19, 06:49:26 by Ben »

Ben

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Re: US Pulls Plug on Low-CO2 Powerplant Project
« Reply #19 on: 2008.02.05, 22:30:20 »
To me, it's not whether we caused the problem, but that the problem is a cycle (in that the more CO2 from the ocean, the hotter the climate, meaning more CO2 released from the ocean), thus our contribution may be exacberating the normally occurring phenomena since it is feeding into a cycle.
OK.
I need to elaborate on what I only implied in my previous posts. CO2 gases have little to no impact on global warming and little to no negative impact on the world. There is some room for debate, but there are no indicators that it has a serious impact. The CO2-is-bad-for-the-earth myth is a red herring, a distraction, just like OJ Simpleton, and the others.


I'd prefer to see how our "involvement" impacts the normal cycle of such things - and thus be able to better determine how negligible (or not) our impact is... but there seem to be varying conflicting studies on that as well. Leaving me no one to believe. Some can be dismissed outright obviously - but the problem I have seen is that some on both sides are funded by those who benefit from the answer such as Way-Out-There-Environmentalists on our impact on the scenario on one side, and the Coal Industry on the other.

Too many questions, too much propaganda and not enough facts....
There is no doubt that we, as a species, emit gases and pollute. There is no doubt that we should fix it. It should also be kept in mind, that this problem is not that big. We see it more, because we live in the middle of it. We think it's more because the government Propaganda Network, (which is HUGE and has virtually unlimited funding), tells us it's worse, that it's big. And we believe it without much thought. They have too few people cleaning up the city so it looks dirty. They park the big plants on our doorsteps so we always get a good lung full of pollution. They jam us into little apartments so that over population seems obvious.
 
To get back to CO2 gases, fixing this smaller problem easy. However, there simply isn't any government will to do anything about it. Keep in mind, that what they are doing is taking our rights and our money, under the guise of putting it to good use in environmental improvement. Have you seen any environmental improvement? Do giving up rights or your way-to-hard-earned money ever bring about the spoon fed solution? If the government were serious about fixing environmental problems, they would simply enforce the laws that are all ready on the books, on the pollution makers, (the big corporations), develop alternate fuels, free people from massive supply projects like electricity and gas, (setting us up in our own houses with our own power source, our own gardens and everything that we need. Why haven't they done this if they serve us?)

Make no mistake about it; we serve them, for their masters are the corporations, not you. You have a right to vote and nothing else, (and even that is seriously in question). The fact that the government chooses to do nothing against the corporations and everything against us, is a key indicator as to what they are really up to and what our position in society really is. I bring to your mind the President Roosevelt quote I made a few posts back. And always remember that actions speak louder than words. This means that what they are doing show what their intent is and is all important. Words from them, mean nothing, especially with politicians. And we all know this. Think about it. Act upon it. You are your own hero. Not them.

I allude back to what I said in a previous post now, for a little clarification on the seemingly complex term of the Dialectic. It is not complex; it is simple. To make it clear I give you the following;

A shepherd has two dogs. From his vantage point on the hill looking down on his herd of sheep, he decides that he wants to move them. He moves into the right location from on high, one dog at his feet, the other positioned a little way off. At the right moment he gives the signal to the far dog and it charges down the hill barking all the way, driving the herd one direction. But the shepherd doesn't want the herd to go to far that way so, when the timing is right, he sends in the other dog from the opposite side and, corrects the course of the herd guiding it skillfully onto the right path. The path is of shepherd's choosing not the herds.

The shepherd is the elite. The dogs are the two experts, (ha!), on TV. We are the sheep. Our conclusions from the debating/charging experts/dogs, is the course that they have steered us, that the elite want. And I assure you! It is not in that direction, that you want to go! They cherry-pick what information they will give you and what they will not give you, making sure that your conclusions are the ones that they want you to have. Do your own research. Make your own thoughts. Come to your own conclusions. Turn off the TV. They tell us it's TV "programming" and they laugh at us when we don't get it, for surely they are "programming" us.

We are the sheep.

Do you want to be a sheep? The world is setup to make not thinking easy, and thinking hard. Thus the slope to sheep-dom is easy. But the choice is always yours. And it is a choice. Make no mistake about it; it is a choice.

Henry Kissinger: "Those who turn over the ruling of their lives to someone else is no better than meat upon the table."

Read.

Think.

Live.

Thought is what separates us from the sheep.

Why turn thought off? (By thought I mean you creating thought, rather than juggling the thoughts that they give you.)

It's hard for those who do not think, to think. Hard. Not too hard.

Are you a sheep?

Are your thoughts really yours?

Do you follow the course they put you on?

Do you choose between the five lines of thought that they give you, thinking you have chosen your own thoughts? Did you originate them? Or did you select from pre-selected choices.

In the Soviet Union, five pre-approved presidential candidates where given to the public to give the public the illusion that they choose their own leaders. Regardless of who was elected the party agenda was carried out.

Do you think it's any different here?

Do you see a change in course with a change in government?

Thomas Jefferson: "When one party is voted out, and an opposing party is voted in, you are in a defacto dictatorship."

Are we in a dictatorship?

Are you thinking your own thoughts now?

Ben

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Re: US Pulls Plug on Low-CO2 Powerplant Project
« Reply #20 on: 2008.02.06, 21:53:50 »
Due to the nature and depth of some of what has been posted in this thread, and just in case any of this has tickled anyone's interest, sparked a few questions, or has caused a desire to look further into any of this, you can;
  • PM me here at the forum or
  • Send me a private E-mail, for my E-mail address here is valid and working.

I can provide further information and/or references, and/or responses to reasonable requests.

Robert Deed

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Re: US Pulls Plug on Low-CO2 Powerplant Project
« Reply #21 on: 2008.03.06, 23:57:25 »
I really don't think hydrogen is a viable alternative.  It is energy intensive to create, hard to store, dangerous and think about the cumulative effect of the worlds cars expelling that much water on a daily basis. 

I also dislike the environmental argument of the limited supply of fossil fuels. If the "experts" were right we would have run out of fuel (and natural gas) almost 40 years ago.  Ben made a good point about the fact that this keeps coming back every few decades. 

Robert, like you, I dislike hybrids. However, going straight out hydrogen (the only viable course in my eyes) is years off, necssitating a complete rework of the fuel and energy infrastrucutre of the US. Hybrids serve as a good stop-gap measure and a means to slowly get people accomodated to the differences that hybrid/alt fuel vehicles will bring. Still, they are a stop-gap, a way to ease the transition. We can not get complacent and not progress to alt-fuel, this must be a transition period only, no more.
« Last Edit: 2008.03.06, 23:59:15 by Robert Deed »

Saijin_Naib

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Re: US Pulls Plug on Low-CO2 Powerplant Project
« Reply #22 on: 2008.03.07, 00:06:52 »
Right, I am fully aware of this. I think one of two things: Our technology is keeping us afloat, or the fuel "scarcity" estimates are just a means for the Oil companies to control the market.

Also, hydrogen is being split with greater efficiency. A news item here last week featured a story about how a research group can now hydrolize water with about 83% efficiency, and expect to see 96% at the end of 5 years. Very viable. Browns gas is no more volatile than regular gaseous petrol :\

Thomas

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Re: US Pulls Plug on Low-CO2 Powerplant Project
« Reply #23 on: 2008.03.07, 01:35:56 »
Hello,

>the cumulative effect of the worlds cars expelling that much water on a daily basis
As you produce hydrogen by water, you are using as much water as you produce. And in an "hydrogen-world" you produce hydrogen by solar-energy.
Greetings.

Thomas

RobertM

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Re: US Pulls Plug on Low-CO2 Powerplant Project
« Reply #24 on: 2008.03.07, 04:33:47 »
I really don't think hydrogen is a viable alternative.  It is energy intensive to create, hard to store, dangerous and think about the cumulative effect of the worlds cars expelling that much water on a daily basis. 


Actually, it is very cheap to produce... the technology is not yet available widely though. Many breakthroughs were done this year that make separating water into hydrogen and oxygen very cost effective. One such was recently covered on some big science site and that article was covered on slashdot.

Oddly, with all the money fossil fuel companies are supposedly spending on such research, it was a college who figured out this newest method.
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