Author Topic: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`  (Read 18806 times)

El Vato

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http://www.os2world.com/content/view/16898/2/
Quote
Posted by Martin Iturbide - Friday, 08 February 2008


There is. .. .

Not all geeks are created equal.  For this geek who obviously has not engaged in the OS/2 experience but pretends to make authoritative statements on a process that he is merely observing from outside his box of comfort, amounts to an desperate attempt to get some attention.

Perhaps I should rephrase the initial statement above as: not because he claims to be a geek, he has the authority to comment over something that he was not involved in or, as a matter of fact experienced first hand.  This kind of empty utterances remind me of the criticism leveled against Schopenhauer who, seated at well served table, praised the decision of those who commited suicide.

Ronald St-Maurice

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #1 on: 2008.02.08, 18:32:16 »
Reads more like a frustrated farewell post.

I am glad X opportunity didn't rise up. ;D

lwriemen

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #2 on: 2008.02.08, 21:32:07 »
Not all geeks are created equal.  For this geek who obviously has not engaged in the OS/2 experience but pretends to make authoritative statements on a process that he is merely observing from outside his box of comfort, amounts to an desperate attempt to get some attention.

Perhaps I should rephrase the initial statement above as: not because he claims to be a geek, he has the authority to comment over something that he was not involved in or, as a matter of fact experienced first hand.
Actually, the person does claim to have run OS/2 for a number of years and the name seems familiar, but that doesn't make up for the number of un-factual or half-factual statements in the article. I agree with the other respondent that this sounds "like a frustrated farewell post". Not as extreme as the Tim Martin and John Ominor psychoses, but certainly related.  :D

RobertM

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #3 on: 2008.02.10, 22:06:44 »
Not all geeks are created equal.  For this geek who obviously has not engaged in the OS/2 experience but pretends to make authoritative statements on a process that he is merely observing from outside his box of comfort, amounts to an desperate attempt to get some attention.

Perhaps I should rephrase the initial statement above as: not because he claims to be a geek, he has the authority to comment over something that he was not involved in or, as a matter of fact experienced first hand.
Actually, the person does claim to have run OS/2 for a number of years and the name seems familiar, but that doesn't make up for the number of un-factual or half-factual statements in the article. I agree with the other respondent that this sounds "like a frustrated farewell post". Not as extreme as the Tim Martin and John Ominor psychoses, but certainly related.  :D

I think part of his "article"/commentary indicates a bias against OS/2, while part of it indicates an unwillingness to admit what enhancements have been made since Serenity started selling eComStation, and part of it seems to be a lack of understanding of how OS/2 does things (it seems he is entrenched in thinking of OS and GUI extendability in the fashion that MS requires it to be done with no understanding of SOM/DSOM, the WPS or extensibility of the OS itself).

This seems common, sadly... in the "Should IBM's SOM/DSOM be open sourced?" thread on Slashdot there are way too many posts that indicate similar problems (lack of understanding).

I think that aspect of the OSNews guy's comment is somewhat similar in that respect to the posts on Slashdot - and very similar to the fact that those in the Linux community who want "the WPS" ported to Linux don't understand that what they also need/want is SOM/DSOM ported to Linux... nor any idea of what subclassing/superclassing truly is or can do (except in the limited fashion it is possible on Windows - or without understanding that virtually everything in the WPS is a set of classes that can be subclassed and/or superclassed. Other OS users (and even OS/2 users past and present) dont make the connection that the WPS (and other things in OS/2) are so powerful/extensible because near everything is an object of that nature.

With an (admittedly) limited understanding of the underlying technology, I (and others of us here - with probably greater understandings of such than me) at least understand that much - but to most others on any other OS, "a lightbulb is a lightbulb" as can be seen on Slashdot where people are comparing SOM/DSOM to COM/COM+ and D-Bus on Linux (and dont even understand the difference between IPC and a truly extensible object framework).

Sadly, I think much of the lack of interest in porting various components of OS/2 are based on that (and similar) lack(s) of understanding...

I for one won't consider Linux for anything that requires extensive use of the GUI until something like the WPS/SOM/DSOM is implemented on it, nor for anything truly thread/process heavy until it's threading model is as dynamic and flexible as OS/2's - but that's simply because, even with a lack of true understanding of the core technology, I've seen what OS/2 can do with a truly well threaded app - and what that app can do on OS/2 (like Domino GoWebserver for instance and a couple thousand threads allocated and in some state of action). And because I've also seen benchmarks for such apps from IBM themselves on NT - and gotten literally ten times the performance out of the same app (again Domino Go) on OS/2 (on the same exact hardware IBM tested with).
« Last Edit: 2008.02.11, 01:10:40 by RobertM »
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lwriemen

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #4 on: 2008.02.12, 17:14:07 »
part of it seems to be a lack of understanding of how OS/2 does things (it seems he is entrenched in thinking of OS and GUI extendability in the fashion that MS requires it to be done with no understanding of SOM/DSOM, the WPS or extensibility of the OS itself).

This seems common, sadly... in the "Should IBM's SOM/DSOM be open sourced?" thread on Slashdot there are way too many posts that indicate similar problems (lack of understanding).

Yes. Too often people mistake "new" for progress. This is especially true for people who only possess partial knowledge; they tend to think their partial view can extend to encompass the whole. This is seen very often in the software world where, despite Frederick Brooks' admonition, people continual try to discover the silver bullet. One current example is XML; it has it's uses, but it is being driven to be applied even where it is not so useful.

SOM is not a silver bullet either, but to dismiss it because it is old is just ignorant.

ModZilla

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All hypotheticals aside Maybe..., given a few years of code update by DEVS from the old school- OS2,  would be lets say brought forward into the open source world without temidity nor as sanctamonious drivvle; someday someone up there on the fourth floor may realize that open source is not simply source code from linux or unix; that day I hope will come sooner  than later (cuz I am olde)and all arguments will have become subsided by truth form and logic rather than by speculative imaginings...:)
someday os2 will be ruled by the young and famous-at least in the open-source world!

El Vato

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All hypotheticals aside Maybe...[...] someday someone up there on the fourth floor may realize that open source is not simply source code from linux or unix;[...]


someday os2 will be ruled by the young and famous-at least in the opensource world!

Do you think that Mike Kaply will still meet those qualifications by that "someday?"  ;)


RobertM

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #7 on: 2008.02.15, 19:17:17 »
part of it seems to be a lack of understanding of how OS/2 does things (it seems he is entrenched in thinking of OS and GUI extendability in the fashion that MS requires it to be done with no understanding of SOM/DSOM, the WPS or extensibility of the OS itself).

This seems common, sadly... in the "Should IBM's SOM/DSOM be open sourced?" thread on Slashdot there are way too many posts that indicate similar problems (lack of understanding).

Yes. Too often people mistake "new" for progress. This is especially true for people who only possess partial knowledge; they tend to think their partial view can extend to encompass the whole. This is seen very often in the software world where, despite Frederick Brooks' admonition, people continual try to discover the silver bullet. One current example is XML; it has it's uses, but it is being driven to be applied even where it is not so useful.

Indeed... Windows Server 2003 had "new" administration screens... this year we got stuck with a support contract that included WinServer2003 administration, and I finally realized how very spoiled I was having WSeB and WS4 domains to administer in the past... DnD Objects were (are) such a beautiful thing. I've still yet to find a server admin GUI based tool as easy as Warp Server's "Drag anything onto anything" method - but then again, 99% of the server admins out there have never seen anything like it, so I am guessing that WinServer2003's admin stuff seems amazing compared to previous efforts. Though, don't get me wrong... it's not like OS/2 does everything right (much less perfect), but I thought that a good example of how "new" definitely is not real progress - except in the limited scope that most people compare "new" to.


SOM is not a silver bullet either, but to dismiss it because it is old is just ignorant.

Very true... it definitely isn't... but (as you and I know - but they dont seem to) anything with enough valid technical advancements/capabilities, such as SOM/DSOM can only make such efforts to create something better that much more possible. I think in that respect alone, it would be great having SOM/DSOM - and tying it together with the best of other efforts to make something even better (incorporating the best features/designs/capabilities of all)...

Unfortunately, I think we are all "preaching to the choir"

-R
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sdennis

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #8 on: 2008.03.01, 21:42:46 »
(A little late, but better late than never...)

Quote
Not all geeks are created equal.  For this geek who obviously has not engaged in the OS/2 experience but pretends to make authoritative statements on a process that he is merely observing from outside his box of comfort, amounts to an desperate attempt to get some attention.

To make your point shorter, the author was talking out his ass.

Just ignore it-remember, every so-called expert likes to talk crap about OS/2...and the chances are good that they haven't touched it in ten years, therefore don't know s*it from Shinola about the subject anymore.

I laughed when I read that.  I wanted to tell him that he was full of crap, but hey, he wasn't worth the electrons then...and still isn't now.
OS/2: Shuts gates, opens windows.

ModZilla

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #9 on: 2008.07.21, 22:19:57 »
OK OK ill ignore the shame me down comment here with one caveat: that exception is that Mike is a smart guy and I wish I could see inside his brain and pull us together rather than swirling anon and apart, thereby confounding us hey you complain I cut out alot of crap here just to keep it brief, because in that universal OS[2] brain somewhere lies heaven as the ultimate cabal, seen rarified in a not so dim light of truth: os2 Warps the minds of even those that have never used it...how could this be you ask? well my boy, there is still hope for you elroy, uncle john and constance M, regardles of your background or your fall_backwardness;  as long as the forum keeps on with its petition efforts that is-those that tweak and fail will be brought along with us who hold are ambition high among the chosen and within all of us they will have been exposed and as well as guided into the mist of reality devoid of any more quark like posts like we see here from time to time, to intimidate; so infrequently those weird statements come to the fore to agitate and cajole us, and alas aren't we all a bit stymied by the orderliness of the trite and also by the wonder of the real here at os2world? I wish I was an os2 code warrior but I repented that years ago and paying for it now with the advent of more and more anguish over Vista...I heard yesterday even gates is having trouble with hastalaVistahhh...my old ibm 770x cant accept my globe trotter-edge network bus card so i just use my newer lap like a firewall and connect to it using a serial cable-the old to the new work well togther so I surf that way- as though I am still in the olde world of 0ses maybe I can still be thwarted out and I wish I could use OS2 more but I intend to keep on using os/2 in some way forever, someday somehow it will be open...and we can do it even if ibm goes before us kicking and screaming all the way to warp5
someday os2 will be ruled by the young and famous-at least in the open-source world!

El Vato

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #10 on: 2008.07.22, 12:08:03 »
OK OK ill ignore the shame me down comment here with one caveat: that exception is that Mike is a smart guy

Well, let me assume that since you mention Mike, it must be Kaply --hence you are referring to my response to your previous  post, ModZilla. 

Several sets of moons ago, too many to count with my fingers since I only have ten, I bought an new Aptiva that came preinstalled with Win 3.1.  Instead of just giving up –like some fellow who previously posted here, and who jumped to the dark side of the metztli ...er, moon, through his recently opened window in the  spaceship, I went to one of the spaceship's cabins and bought Mike Kaply's book, “IBM's Official OS/2 Warp Faq pack.” 

In the enclosed CDROM media I found the updated OS/2 CD device drivers needed to update my OS/2 installation floppies.  Subsequently, OS/2 Warp 3 installation media was enabled to recognize the Mitsumi physical CD device of the Aptiva. Yes, and Mike also had a picture of himself in the multimedia section of the CDROM –the one that you saw in my post.

and I wish I could see inside his brain and pull us together rather than swirling anon and apart, thereby confounding us hey you complain I cut out alot of crap here just to keep it brief, because in that universal OS[2] brain somewhere lies heaven

"heaven" I prefer a more agnostic term, how about nirvana ???

as the ultimate cabal, seen rarified in a not so dim light of truth: os2 Warps the minds of even those that have never used it...how could this be you ask? well my boy, there is still hope for you elroy, uncle john and constance M,


Your last phrase is cool, down to earth, but animated writing, ModZilla, possibly I will borrow from you for future use –do you mind?

regardles of your background or your fall_backwardness;  as long as the forum keeps on with its petition efforts that is-those that tweak and fail will be brought along with us who hold are ambition high among the chosen

chosen” smacks of status quo elitist notions, I like more macehuales, or those who, like Sysiphus, persevere in an apparently "futile and hopeless labor."

and within all of us they will have been exposed and as well as guided into the mist of reality devoid of any more quark like posts like we see here from time to time, to intimidate; so infrequently those weird statements come to the fore to agitate and cajole us, and alas aren't we all a bit stymied by the orderliness of the trite and also by the wonder of the real here at os2world?


Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.
  - Walter Lippmann

Hence, dissent is always healthy, when done in a constructive manner as opposed to that babbled by ignoramus like him whose blog post this thread is reacting against.

I wish I was an os2 code warrior but I repented that years ago and paying for it now with the advent of more and more anguish over Vista...

Well, according to your previous post (that I replied to whimsically) you are a visionary –that is somewhat of a rarity in the OS/2 World pseudo community.  You have the ability to transcend notions that even some OS/2 developers can not --as judged from the again quoted crucial statement of yours stating that open source is not only relevant to GNU/Linux:

All hypotheticals aside Maybe...[...] someday someone up there on the fourth floor may realize that open source is not simply source code from linux or unix;[...]

I heard yesterday even gates is having trouble with hastalaVistahhh...

Privately, he has been cursing his own creations since the earliest WinXX releases.  Why would that be surprising ???

my old ibm 770x cant accept my globe trotter-edge network bus card so i just use my newer lap like a firewall and connect to it using a serial cable-the old to the new work well togther so I surf that way-

If you ever come by the San Francisco Bay area, let me take a look at your machine.  I may be able to create some magic and convince your machine to like your network card directly –oh, it is going to be on the house, courtesy of Metztli IT  ;) .

as though I am still in the olde world of 0ses maybe I can still be thwarted out and I wish I could use OS2 more but I intend to keep on using os/2 in some way forever, someday somehow it will be open...and we can do it even if ibm goes before us kicking and screaming all the way to warp5

That is what I keep telling them over and over  :)...(sigh)

saborion2

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #11 on: 2008.07.22, 14:13:24 »
Re:

Quote

Quote Wrom: AIJJPHSCRTNHGSWZIDREXCAXZOWCONEU
I heard yesterday even gates is having trouble with hastalaVistahhh...

Privately, he has been cursing his own creations since the earliest WinXX releases.  Why would that be surprising  ???


From the above... why should this come as a surprise to anyone:

Quote

Bill Bates promoting IBM OS/2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIq0ukqUJSk


In the above video clip Mr. Gates may have inadvertently left out the words "and beyond"  ;D ::) ;D when he said that OS/2 was the "platform for the 90's"!   8)

Best regards,

SAB

saborion2

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #12 on: 2008.07.22, 14:51:52 »
I particularly enjoyed reading this:

Re:

Quote

I could use OS2 more but I intend to keep on using os/2 in some way forever, someday somehow it will be open...and we can do it even if ibm goes before us kicking and screaming all the way to warp5


I personally wish this ("ibm goes (had gone) before us kicking and screaming all the way to warp5") had actually happened 5 or more years ago. So, at this time rather than anticipating the General Availability (GA) eComStation 2.0 we would all be lining up for the General Availability (GA) of WARP 6.0 (or, should it have been WARP 7.0?). ;D ;D ;D

Best regards,

SAB
« Last Edit: 2008.07.22, 16:17:46 by saborion2 »

abwillis

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #13 on: 2008.07.22, 15:43:03 »
If you ever come by the San Francisco Bay area, let me take a look at your machine.  I may be able to create some magic and convince your machine to like your network card directly –oh, it is going to be on the house, courtesy of Metztli IT  ;) .
Sorry for the off topic but being relatively close (considering Jan is coming from Germany after all) will you be able to attend Warpstock in Santa Cruz this year? 

Andy

saborion2

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #14 on: 2008.07.22, 16:01:40 »
In addition to the above....

Re:

Quote

and we can do it even if ibm goes before us kicking and screaming all the way to warp5


Taking a "cue" from the "Flintstones" (Fred and Wilma)  ;D ;D ;D; Just which will be better or easier: Pushing "IBM" in front ("ibm goes before us kicking and screaming") or pulling them behind us? Open-Source or not! ::) ::) ::)

Kindest regards.

SAB