Author Topic: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`  (Read 18803 times)

El Vato

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #15 on: 2008.07.22, 18:14:05 »
If you ever come by the San Francisco Bay area, let me take a look at your machine.  I may be able to create some magic and convince your machine to like your network card directly –oh, it is going to be on the house, courtesy of Metztli IT  ;) .
Sorry for the off topic but being relatively close (considering Jan is coming from Germany after all) will you be able to attend Warpstock in Santa Cruz this year? 

Andy

Well, Andy, I am mostly busy.  I tested the reaction to a couple of topics that I might  present at WarpStock in the thread named: Question to Potential Warpstock attendees and basically no one cared.  Now I have a tight schedule after my (at the very least one day) planned attendance to the LinuxWorld 2008 event --to be held at the Moscone Center in San Francisco during the previous week to WarpStock.

Among the stuff that I am working on is an pre colonial ancient language plug-in for Symphony and I am already way behind schedule.  Besides, I have mostly worked alone on my OS/2 projects.  I found out the hard way, before I had a medium to publish some of those projects --like my blog-- that I am mostly 90 to 180 degrees of a different perspective than my OS/2 peers.  That possibly is due to my early entry into the open source world --where procedures where performed with no GUI interface in mid 1990's -- whereas my OS/2 peers were happy being hand held by MS proprietary WinXX "clicky" hand.  Hence their chains never broke like mine did.

Accordingly, as a peer at WarpStock there may not be synergy with other attendees who would not understand why my insistence on change at the fundamental level of development of the OS/2.  I have had to defend my position here a number of times against some of those who will be attending the event  --let's leave it at that.

 I have found out that I need more options --that Linux provides-- and that if the OS/2 is not set free will hardly be in a position to offer me those options.  Yes, that includes the ability to execute in 64-bit mode as a host to hold my tests of mixed 32 and 64-bit fully and paravirtualized virtual machines, for an specific instance.  And this is one of the key points that I have been arguing over and over.  Yet, this kind of issues are conveniently swept under the rug by many around here --and possibly many who will be attending the event.  Hence...let's leave it at that.

Regards.

Saijin_Naib

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #16 on: 2008.07.22, 20:21:33 »
That's kind of a shame really, OS/2 events need all the talent they can draw because our pool is rather divided and small. I believe that differing perspectives should not conflict so much as feed into a hybrid of both that will address the validity that each viewpoint holds.

Hopefully you still keep OS/2 around as a hobby OS Vato, as your contributions and presence are surely most welcome.

saborion2

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #17 on: 2008.07.22, 23:44:52 »
Hey El Vato,

You have said (et al) in this post:

Quote

Among the stuff that I am working on is an pre colonial ancient language plug-in for Symphony and I am already way behind schedule.  Besides, I have mostly worked alone on my OS/2 projects.  I found out the hard way, before I had a medium to publish some of those projects --like my blog-- that I am mostly 90 to 180 degrees of a different perspective than my OS/2 peers.  That possibly is due to my early entry into the open source world --where procedures where performed with no GUI interface in mid 1990's -- whereas my OS/2 peers were happy being hand held by MS proprietary WinXX "clicky" hand.  Hence their chains never broke like mine did.

Accordingly, as a peer at WarpStock there may not be synergy with other attendees who would not understand why my insistence on change at the fundamental level of development of the OS/2.  I have had to defend my position here a number of times against some of those who will be attending the event  --let's leave it at that.

 I have found out that I need more options --that Linux provides-- and that if the OS/2 is not set free will hardly be in a position to offer me those options.  Yes, that includes the ability to execute in 64-bit mode as a host to hold my tests of mixed 32 and 64-bit fully and paravirtualized virtual machines, for an specific instance.  And this is one of the key points that I have been arguing over and over.  Yet, this kind of issues are conveniently swept under the rug by many around here --and possibly many who will be attending the event.  Hence...let's leave it at that.....


Dude, I for one have been following some of the interesting things that you have been saying and have an interest in "the ability to execute in 64-bit mode as a host to hold my tests of mixed 32 and 64-bit fully..."; but, let me ask you this question: How many different ways are there possible for persons to get to the top of a mountain? And, BTW, if you are climbing the mountain (as against that of an "helicopter" landing) how about having some "Sherpa Guides/Helpers" (other *experienced OS/2 developers*, testers...) to come along on the journey ;D ;) ;D .

Also, do you necessarily think that you do have to "climb" that "proverbial mountain" alone as I would not mind the experience of being at the "Base Camp" even if I can't make it to the "Summit"! ???

Kindest regards,

SAB
   
« Last Edit: 2008.07.23, 00:20:39 by saborion2 »

El Vato

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #18 on: 2008.07.23, 12:31:09 »
Hey El Vato,

You have said (et al) in this post:

Quote
[...]
OS/2 peers were happy being hand held by MS proprietary WinXX "clicky" hand.  Hence their chains never broke like mine did.[...]
Yet, this kind of issues are conveniently swept under the rug by many around here --and possibly many who will be attending the event.  Hence...let's leave it at that.....


Dude, I for one have been following some of the interesting things that you have been saying and have an interest in "the ability to execute in 64-bit mode as a host to hold my tests of mixed 32 and 64-bit fully..."; but, let me ask you this question: How many different ways are there possible for persons to get to the top of a mountain? And, BTW, if you are climbing the mountain (as against that of an "helicopter" landing) how about having some "Sherpa Guides/Helpers" (other *experienced OS/2 developers*, testers...) to come along on the journey ;D ;) ;D .

Also, do you necessarily think that you do have to "climb" that "proverbial mountain" alone as I would not mind the experience of being at the "Base Camp" even if I can't make it to the "Summit"! ???

Kindest regards,

SAB
   

I think you are reading too much into what I wrote, SAB.  There is no proverbial mountain.  To paraphrase Marten Mickos, of MySQL AB fame, at a keynote address he gave at the Open Source Business Conference (OSBC) 2007 in San Francisco, "You only follow the (hockey) puck wherever it goes and/or attempt to figure out its trajectory --after being banged by all those IT players."   Evidently, the hockey puck might represent a particular state of technology and/or applications in the constant competitive flux.

That's all.  :)

That's kind of a shame really, OS/2 events need all the talent they can draw because our pool is rather divided and small. I believe that differing perspectives should not conflict so much as feed into a hybrid of both that will address the validity that each viewpoint holds.
[...]

Saijin_Naib

Using the analogy above, the hockey puck is in constant movement.  The slow player --as is represented by the OS/2's current owner and business associates-- has difficulty keeping pace with its more nimble counterparts;  its change of uniform with the eCS logo does not add much to its speed and agility.  For instance, when the OS/2 player arrives at a given location, the puck has been flung elsewhere by another player. As mentioned elsewhere in another thread, Apple is cheating by abusing the BSD license to keep playing and hitting the puck. 

MS and GNU/Linux are locked in the struggle.   The OS/2 player needs to leverage open technologies and GPLv2-3 licenses to get a chance to hit the puck and make a difference --or even to get close to another player and cause some effect in the trajectory of the puck.

saborion2

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #19 on: 2008.07.23, 16:45:55 »
Hi El Vato,

Quote

I think you are reading too much into what I wrote, SAB.  There is no proverbial mountain.  To paraphrase Marten Mickos, of MySQL AB fame, at a keynote address he gave at the Open Source Business Conference (OSBC) 2007 in San Francisco, "You only follow the (hockey) puck wherever it goes and/or attempt to figure out its trajectory --after being banged by all those IT players."   Evidently, the hockey puck might represent a particular state of technology and/or applications in the constant competitive flux.

That's all.   :)

Quote Wrom: YOQKEDOTWFAOBUZXUWLSZLKBRNVWWCUFPEG
That's kind of a shame really, OS/2 events need all the talent they can draw because our pool is rather divided and small. I believe that differing perspectives should not conflict so much as feed into a hybrid of both that will address the validity that each viewpoint holds.
[...]

Saijin_Naib

Using the analogy above, the hockey puck is in constant movement.  The slow player --as is represented by the OS/2's current owner and business associates-- has difficulty keeping pace with its more nimble counterparts;  its change of uniform with the eCS logo does not add much to its speed and agility.  For instance, when the OS/2 player arrives at a given location, the puck has been flung elsewhere by another player. As mentioned elsewhere in another thread, Apple is cheating by abusing the BSD license to keep playing and hitting the puck.

MS and GNU/Linux are locked in the struggle.   The OS/2 player needs to leverage open technologies and GPLv2-3 licenses to get a chance to hit the puck and make a difference --or even to get close to another player and cause some effect in the trajectory of the puck.


Substituting the the "Terrestrial Hockey Rink" that we all know  for that of "International Space Station II" then what "conditions" do we experience - objects (like the hockey puck) floating around; and, rather than all the world viewing an very action packed "hockey game" it sees "space bound astronauts/cosmonauts, tourists..." having to to rely on carefully crafted skills to get certain "tasks" completed successfully rather that the more "agile players" (IT folks) dominating the game; and, its one reason that in the past I have made several references in these threads about the OS/2 exploits by the Russian Space Federation.

Be it as it may; (and, to repeat what you have said "the OS/2's current owner and business associates-- has difficulty keeping pace with its more nimble counterparts")  the may not necessarily be the owners of those crucial "source code-base" and it is felt that as generous as they have been in the past (Linux)  ;) - then we ought to respect their position on these and other issues related to any enhancements of OS/2.

It is the reason why it is believed that VOYAGER (and, all else being equal - CASSINI)  will be having the attention of the viewers and IT players all around the world. I am quite sure that you are familiar with the words -re-engineering, re-engineered, team-work....; also, add to these - "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bushes/forests"! (Again, substituting the the "Terrestrial Hockey Rink" that we all know for that of "International Space Station II" (as the mountain to be scaled)!  ;D

Best regards,

SAB
     
« Last Edit: 2008.07.23, 18:08:06 by saborion2 »

ddan

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #20 on: 2008.07.23, 18:58:00 »
I can't seem to follow the discussion here. What the heck are you on about?

Since I don't get it, here's my one cent rather than two.

What exactly is there to gain by trying to keep up with the useless excesses
of Windows and Linux? MOST people WILL NOT USE because DO NOT WANT most of
whatever new "features" are added to the function already available in OS/2.

That present function is already seriously cluttered up under Windows / Linux
precisely by the ever-increasing bloat of new geeky "gee whiz" features that
complicate without improving, particularly for what most people do.

Geeks don't grasp that most people do not PLAY WITH the computer as such, nor
even play games, but wish to accomplish tasks, usually simple ones. There's no
getting around that fact.

Concrete example: I never figured out most of Media Player 10. I just wanted
to play a little music and video by clicking on files; it bombarded me with
"Library", skins, effects, and playlists, NONE of which I wanted, ALL of which
is too complicated to learn for no obvious benefit, and then there's the
built-in advertising and spyware aspects. Even new skins require learning,
trying to figure out what buttons designed for "eye candy" rather than
function do. Turns out that even with XP and WMP10, saving playlists from
Shoutcast.com is actually MORE trouble than the method I kludged up for Dink's
Z and Firefox; playlists still have to be manually re-named from the generic
name as downloaded. Where's the COOL in that?

Call me Utilitarian, but if automobile controls were designed the way software
interface is, you wouldn't be able to get out of your driveway.

I say that instead of whining about what OS/2 "lacks", the marketing position
should be to PLAY UP its simplicity and reliability. That whole niche has
essentially disappeared from the market, who are stuck with Windows and all of
its bloat and problems, and for whom Linux is, er, unknown if not unknowable.

Licensing issues aside (ahem), IF a generic OS/2 CP2 image was available (with
at least Snap Graphics, Uniaudio, Firefox, and maybe CD-burning software), and
installed on suitable medium-old hardware such as your friends and family have
lying around, and they were provided with printed instructions sternly warning
of a few things NOT to do, and on HOW to do the few things that normal
(non-geek) people do, then they'd probably be able to use that system
indefinitely without problem.

(True geeks would likely swoon if trying out OS/2 was easy, particularly if a
concise description of its features was provided, not least the difference
between Desktop objects and shortcuts.)

Linux is ALMOST suitable to adapt for BASIC functions, dodges the licensing
too, BUT Linux types are characteristically unable to do simple, so it would
effectively always be under attack from its own side dangling "upgrades" and
eye-candy to "keep up". That's why OS/2 would be better: it's essentially
frozen, yet does everything that a reasonable person wants to do.

(As for "necessary" IPv6 changes: predictions are that it has police state /
corporatism elements so that YOU won't want to use it, but will be FORCED to.)

If only people KNEW that there IS a reasonable alternative to both Windows and
Linux, and Apple too, and installation was EASY...

saborion2

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #21 on: 2008.07.23, 19:59:43 »
Re:

Quote

I can't seem to follow the discussion here. What the heck are you on about?


Well, well, well! Here is a very simple question for you: Have you read, understood... the spirit of the OS/2 World Foundation's Petition Letters (1st. and 2nd.) to the perceived owners of the OS/2 Operating Systems Source-Codes (or those Source-Codes purportedly owned) to IBM.  ???

Here in part was the response from IBM:

Quote

Dear Mr. Haverblad,


Thank you for your letter and continued suggestions recommending an OS/2 open source project.


As stated in our response to your September 2005 letter we have considered the positioning of OS/2 and open source several times in the past, and for a variety of business, technical, and legal reasons we have decided to not pursue any OS/2 open source projects.


IBM has service offerings that continue to be available for customers who need ongoing support for OS/2, although IBM has no plans for product enhancements. IBM has recommended that customers on OS/2 consider migration to alternative solution offerings, and has a broad array of software assets and services to help customers migrate. We would like to ask you to encourage any customers who are still planning their migrations or who have other technical requirements to contact their IBM representative to discuss how these assets and services could be leveraged.


It would seem to me from all appearances when reading into the above IBM's response that this is not the same as your:

Quote

That's why OS/2 would be better: it's essentially
frozen, yet does everything that a reasonable person wants to do.


when IBM has clearly stated (and to repeat):

Quote

We would like to ask you to encourage any customers who are still planning their migrations or who have other technical requirements to contact their IBM representative to discuss how these assets and services could be leveraged.


All the above when taken into the broad context (the technical requirements that may have been referred to by El Vato et al) it is intended then this should hopefully help one to get the general directions of this discussion.

Have a nice day.

Regards,

SAB

ddan

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #22 on: 2008.07.23, 21:36:51 »
Saborion: did you read past the first line of my last post?

Here's my position boiled down: let's keep OS/2 SIMPLE. It's a BIG advantage, properly marketed.

I believe that I'M the one getting back to the original topic; it's just that I don't want to GO where everyone else IS. Why bother? If you want annoying, use Windows; if you want geeky, Linux. Let's have a true alternative that at least gets the simple things right.

saborion2

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #23 on: 2008.07.23, 22:24:23 »
Hi ddan,

Re:

Saborion: did you read past the first line of my last post?

Here's my position boiled down: let's keep OS/2 SIMPLE. It's a BIG advantage, properly marketed.

I believe that I'M the one getting back to the original topic; it's just that I don't want to GO where everyone else IS. Why bother? If you want annoying, use Windows; if you want geeky, Linux. Let's have a true alternative that at least gets the simple things right.

From an Enterprise (Warp) perspective/concept... Is having an "essential" product such as Lotus Sametime (see the attached link) running on OS/2 (ported to OS/2) too much to ask for in the fast paced world of today in which we all (geeks or no geeks) live?

Quote

IBM/Lotus sharpens weapon for unified communications battle
IBM/Lotus Sametime at heart of strategy; Vendor committing $1 billion to develop platform

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/072208-ibm-lotus.html


Please say, is this not such a "simple" enough request after all that would "keep OS/2 simple"?  8)

Best regards,

SAB

ModZilla

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #24 on: 2008.07.23, 23:17:56 »
El Vato "bluurped" and we all belched here, this thread has spun out of control and we are afraid to say maybe he meant it as a slur, but for sake of peace of mind, lets just say he is right and meant no harm, he is glad perhaps for reasons yet to be stated, maybe dreaming of the intangible is just a waste of time for some, while for others it sparks the kind of energy which has set off the fire storm of these forums...so many many great posts in this thread were all generated from such a simple position, he is glad ok ok, but I beg to differ, respectfully, I wish IBM had the youknowwhats and the vision to make the source code available to those who could really make it useful as an opensource driven OS, one that would spirit simplicity rather than control as opposed to what I have learned to expect from the big not so blue, so to have the code not released may not be best for IBM in a technical or legal way for now, but who really knows; I am no international copyright lawyer, but I do understand one thing in this competitive world of ours: without risk there is no economic gain and today, there is this huge OPUS, the driving engine of progress and sometimes it just drives us all off a cliff and yet it may drive decisions that ultimately cause OSes to be put into peoples laptops, blackberrys and small micro devices that are simply just browsers that use apps online...seems simple enough but maybe its not the way we want to go as ende users, do we have any say unless we go open? - this recent trend may lead to a pandoras box being opened, ie browsers that are too smart and maybe too smart means loss of control, when they become remotely controlled from servers, who will be watching the quarks and the kitty? Who gets the money for development and who hires sys admins to protect the product and offer real security: the question is perhaps will open source just fade out as real desktop user OSes become simple browsers used in a vast network that we would all forced to use as we become connected to each other in ways not so personal, such that determining the fate of open source would result only in the death of the personal desktop and of the personal computer; yes, lets keep it simple...arrrgh I apologize in advance for any disclarity or typos as I am a little upset here...
someday os2 will be ruled by the young and famous-at least in the open-source world!

ddan

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #25 on: 2008.07.24, 04:45:56 »
To Saborion2:

Quote:
From an Enterprise (Warp) perspective/concept... Is having an "essential"
product such as Lotus Sametime (see the attached link) running on OS/2 (ported
to OS/2) too much to ask for in the fast paced world of today in which we all
(geeks or no geeks) live?
------

Uh... Don't know, don't care. First I've ever heard of "Lotus Sametime", and
while I don't mistake my narrow little views for Universal Truths, odds are
that it's rare. I didn't even know that Lotus was still in business. At least
tell me how it would make my everyday tasks and activities more pleasant.

I'd rather have an improved clone of "Celebrity Word Processor Plus". It has
apparently unique features including a macro language that allowed me to
program next file / previous file keys, so that I can skim through them at
about the keyboard rate, MUCH more convenient than ANY file selector dialog.
I've been considering starting a thread on Celebrity, expanding to my ideas
for improving it, and for text editing in general (especially as distinct from
typesetting as GUIs do, which only distracts from ideas), but would require
lengthy explanation, and then to actually use the program, so I'd have to dig
out its original diskettes and upload to somewhere. It's worth preserving, and
I may have the only copy left of this 21 year-old marvel. It's not an
"enterprise" solution, but I'm not a trekkie, heh, heh. Celebrity is merely a
tool that I've used most days of 15 years now, so of NO interest to fickle
geeks who live on "the edge".

------------------
Okay, NOW I'm complaining about the online editor: it bailed out on me yet
again after I had composed the above and I had to re-type it, having foolishly
closed the window. Only loss of time, nothing wrong with my short-term memory.
Guess I'll learn to edit only in my trusted old DOS program, then paste it.

El Vato

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #26 on: 2008.07.24, 10:55:54 »
El Vato "bluurped" and we all belched here, this thread has spun out of control and we are afraid to say maybe he meant it as a slur, but for sake of peace of mind, lets just say he is right and meant no harm,

Not a slur and no harm intended, ModZilla.  Taking as a precedent Henry Thoreau's past position against critics who, like those in present day USA who defend current conservative policies of throwing constitutional civil rights into the toilet in the name of “protection”,  I could claim that I echo the universal integrating platform aspect of the OS/2 –much like Thoreau claimed he was the conscience of the country. 

My stance opposes the finite and the narrow perception of the OS/2 --convenient to the current vendor(s) old business model practices-- and practically frozen and predictable for the old timers (with the proper amount of respect to the previous term) who, understandably in humans, may feel afraid of change in their favorite os.  But change is inevitable in life, as in all phases of human endeavors and ephemeral creations. 

Hence, in order to leverage scarce OS/2 resources, betas of OS/2 development should be open; that is, the sample target should not be controlled, as it is currently, so that the element of variation may enter the OS/2 experience.

Any additional development, like drivers, etc., should be released under the GPL –implicitly inviting others around the globe to collaborate.  As it is now, current OS/2 components are tainted for any subsequent redistribution; that simply promotes  the notion of elitism of the developers of the license holders.

Active promotion in non OS/2 sites of the capabilities of the OS/2 as an viable computing alternative, matching current technological trends.  The latter should be backed with essence –hence, not only “it runs in a virtual environment.”  Cool to be admired, but can it support “current” applications?  I am sure, judging from the hits recorded, this WSEB entry must have raised a few eyebrows due to its going against the babbling of “expert” journalists and ignoramus pseudo bloggers who, time and again, have pronounced the OS/2 as dead.

he is glad perhaps for reasons yet to be stated, maybe dreaming of the intangible is just a waste of time for some, while for others it sparks the kind of energy which has set off the fire storm of these forums...so many many great posts in this thread were all generated from such a simple position, he is glad ok ok, but I beg to differ, respectfully,

Ditto.  But I do not differ in a respectable manner since he is no OS/2er but a  hireling --of the sort hired to attack Blake in his works expounding the European imperceived symbolic death of God and miracles by scientific explanation of natural phenomena.

I wish IBM had the youknowwhats

This statement is ambiguous, ModZilla.  If by any chance you are referring to the dual compartment where males carry their essence, you might be branded as a chauvinist by the femmes.

and the vision to make the source code available to those who could really make it useful as an opensource driven OS, one that would spirit simplicity rather than control as opposed to what I have learned to expect from the big not so blue, so to have the code not released may not be best for IBM in a technical or legal way for now, but who really knows;

True.  Rather than accept a deterministic fate, the big blue door should be knocked again and again.

I am no international copyright lawyer, but I do understand one thing in this competitive world of ours: without risk there is no economic gain and today, there is this huge OPUS, the driving engine of progress and sometimes it just drives us all off a cliff and yet it may drive decisions that ultimately cause OSes to be put into peoples laptops, blackberrys and small micro devices that are simply just browsers that use apps online...seems simple enough but maybe its not the way we want to go as ende users, do we have any say unless we go open?

No.  Going GPL we call the shots.  Otherwise, there is no market muscle (unless it is hidden in enterprises) to produce an effect on current vendor(s).

- this recent trend may lead to a pandoras box being opened, ie browsers that are too smart and maybe too smart means loss of control, when they become remotely controlled from servers, who will be watching the quarks and the kitty?

If the clients are GPL, it can be known when E.T. will be phoning home.  If the clients are BSD and not tainted, it can still be known; but if the clients are tainted BSD (like Apple does) and/or proprietary, then it can not be known.

Who gets the money for development and who hires sys admins to protect the product and offer real security:

Market resources are used to pay for that maintenance and protection of the client in the network is the computer paradigm in the model espoused by the likes of Google.  For enterprise users, the big IT hockey players offer them alternatives.

the question is perhaps will open source just fade out as real desktop user OSes become simple browsers used in a vast network that we would all forced to use as we become connected to each other in ways not so personal,

This is the key in the network is the computer paradigm, ModZilla: become connected in ways not so personal.  In other words, you decide what you want to share and what you want to keep private.  I know that my friend BenDragon is a little paranoid but if he is using a GPL client, and he does not want to disclose that he wears underwear with printed little harts, no one will know.

On the other hand, with all those close-up spy devices along the Texas border, I would also be paranoid.  What the US ostrich-like conservatives conveniently ignore is that their economic monster demands economic slaves that in this particular case is being fulfilled by the least privileged class in former Spanish colonies --whereas in ancient Greece that position was filled by red-haired slaves from conquered peoples. 

Hence, in order for Plato to philosophize someone had to do the dishes and cook for him.  And Aristotle preferred to dance when he was getting plumpy rather than engage in manual work --that the Greek democracy slave and beast lowest layer performed. The current migration of so called “degraders of the environment” by Chertoff, might be attributed as a direct result of so called free trade agreements with the elitist upper classes of those former Spanish colonies.

such that determining the fate of open source would result only in the death of the personal desktop and of the personal computer;

Well my boy, there is still hope for you Elroy, uncle John and constance M1,  since a full fledged personal desktop like GNU/Linux (or even OS/2 Next Generation) are (or might) be composed of only GPL components, as well as a simple lightweight client (browser), to connect to the network is the computer paradigm implementations.

yes, lets keep it simple...arrrgh I apologize in advance for any disclarity or typos as I am a little upset here...


1 Assuming that you licensed your cool phrase under the GPL (in the simplest case), ModZilla, I have modified it and contributed those changes so that others may use it  :).  That is the beauty of the GPL, I can not make your code mine, like Apple does with BSD.  I must share my modifications, however minor, to the source from which I took so that others can benefit –from capitalization changes in this simple instance.

saborion2

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #27 on: 2008.07.24, 16:47:42 »
It must be "History Lessons" (on the development of OS/2 Operating System) time!!!  ???

Re:

Quote

Quote Wrom: ZCMHVIBGDADRZFSQHYUCDDJBLVLMH
the question is perhaps will open source just fade out as real desktop user OSes become simple browsers used in a vast network that we would all forced to use as we become connected to each other in ways not so personal,

This is the key in the network is the computer paradigm, ModZilla: become connected in ways not so personal.  In other words, you decide what you want to share and what you want to keep private.  I know that my friend BenDragon is a little paranoid but if he is using a GPL client, and he does not want to disclose that he wears underwear with printed little harts, no one will know.



And, here is why:

Quote

In November, 1994, OS/2 Warp 3.0 was released. It was the first PC operating system to have built-in Internet support. At the time, OS/2 critics said that Internet support was just "more geek crap," but today every major operating system ships with built-in Internet support. The release of OS/2 Warp Connect followed, and included full network support out of the box for all the major protocols, including IPX, TCP/IP, and NetBIOS. At this point, the focus for OS/2 became the "networked computer." When Windows 95 was released in August, 1995, resellers reported record sales on OS/2, as many people saw how Microsoft's hack didn't quite cut it for real-world, mission-critical usage.

OS/2 Warp 4.0 (codename "Merlin") was released in August, 1996. It's new features included a "beautified" GUI; the new graphical icons and "widgets" were designed by an ex-Apple programmer. The beauty was much more than skin deep, however. Also included were OpenGL support, OpenDoc support, and a full Java Development Kit, which included a Java Virtual Machine, which allows Java applications to be run independent of a browser.

http://www.os2bbs.com/OS2News/OS2Warp.html


So, the question is - did I get this about OS/2 correctly; and, to repeat: "The beauty was much more than skin deep, however. Also included were OpenGL support, OpenDoc support, and a full Java Development Kit, which included a Java Virtual Machine, which allows Java applications to be run independent of a browser...."

Talk about "browser" bloat, and more "browser" bloat and yet certain financial and economic analysts around the world (after years and years of waiting) still cannot get their work (involving "simple" but sophisticated spreadsheet applications) done. And, such are the "limitations" of OS/2, Windows, Linux et al that it is felt at this corner of the world that our goodly colleague El Vato is pleading with us to consider by poring combustible liquid at the end of an "ignition sequence" (the OS/2 World Foundation's First and Second Petition Letters to IBM). But; then again,
Quote
the youknowwhats
may be far removed from IBM as we know that company today as certain developers that were associated with the company may have died of natural causes; or, were deliberately eliminated.! 8)  ;D

This was just my little trek back in time on an aspect of the OS/2 Operating System's development path (non-browser usages...) while some are emboldened enough to say ("`I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`"). Ouch!  8)

Best regards.

SAB
« Last Edit: 2008.07.24, 21:56:39 by saborion2 »

ModZilla

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #28 on: 2008.07.25, 00:50:41 »
you are right here 'el vato' but you started this thread, not me, I guess I will always have a bone to pick with IBM and corporate culture amasse, Henry David would never have understood pure cut throat materialism driven by greed, so now its all been so softened by this guilt conciousness thing we all hide behind now, so in keeping with my mischeivious vagueries as some kind of not so enboldened shield-I'll put it to ya this way: they aint got no GONADS dude!

Impressiona are made but fortunes? ... always lost [can't take it with you!]

MZ
someday os2 will be ruled by the young and famous-at least in the open-source world!

saborion2

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Re: `I`m Glad That IBM Declined to Release the OS/2 Source`
« Reply #29 on: 2008.07.25, 01:23:38 »
Re:

you are right here 'el vato' but you started this thread, not me, I guess I will always have a bone to pick with IBM and corporate culture amasse, Henry David would never have understood pure cut throat materialism driven by greed, so now its all been so softened by this guilt conciousness thing we all hide behind now, so in keeping with my mischeivious vagueries as some kind of not so enboldened shield-I'll put it to ya this way: they aint got no GONADS dude!

Impressiona are made but fortunes? ... always lost [can't take it with you!]

MZ

Hmmmm... words like
Quote
"cut throat materialism driven by greed", "Impressiona are made but fortunes? ... always lost [can't take it with you!]...

and, quests, aspirations, "The Development Continuum"...

What was it? Was it "The Philosophy of Poverty; or, was it "The Poverty of Philosophy"!!! Maybe, we have to look to CONFUCIUS' teachings for the answer then our goodly colleague El Vato's (as well as others who will come after him) efforts would not have been in vain. Then it would appear not to be the question of
Quote
always lost [can't take it with you!]...
but one of what ("legacy") you are "leaving behind"! ;) ;D ::)

Kindest regards.

SAB
 
« Last Edit: 2008.07.25, 03:02:56 by saborion2 »