Author Topic: My eCS 2.0 hopes...  (Read 12029 times)

jep

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Re: My eCS 2.0 hopes...
« Reply #15 on: 2008.04.15, 11:39:05 »
Hello,

WarpCafé is quite right as to what I can see and have read. They'll only release it after extensive testing and everyone that is working on the project seem focused on testing it and fixing things. There are so many parameters to check that it can be very tedous, not to say impossible (I know, because I test software every day here at my work) and the slightest deviation can result in new and unexpected results that has to be dealt with.

New features will be added at a later stage, but eCS will arrive when it is ready for prime time.

//Jan-Erik

saborion2

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Re: My eCS 2.0 hopes...
« Reply #16 on: 2008.04.15, 15:09:13 »
Hello,

WarpCafé is quite right as to what I can see and have read. They'll only release it after extensive testing and everyone that is working on the project seem focused on testing it and fixing things. There are so many parameters to check that it can be very tedious, not to say impossible (I know, because I test software every day here at my work) and the slightest deviation can result in new and unexpected results that has to be dealt with.

New features will be added at a later stage, but eCS will arrive when it is ready for prime time.

//Jan-Erik

With particular reference to this statement:
Quote
There are so many parameters to check that it can be very tedious, not to say impossible (I know, because I test software every day here at my work) and the slightest deviation can result in new and unexpected results that has to be dealt with.

New features will be added at a later stage, but eCS will arrive when it is ready for prime time.
What give MenSys, Serenity Systems International et al who are concerned with getting eComStation "out of the door" that they have got the "best people in the world" aboard with regards to eComStation's development; and, it is for one of these reasons that the OS/2 World Foundation has approached IBM to release all or parts of OS/2 Source-Codes there-off to the Open-Source OS/2 Community. There is a saying that "many hands make light work"  ??? ::) ;D

Also, in addition to all that is being said, what is there to convince users that MenSys, Serenity Systems International et al have sat down with certain classes of users (bankers, consultants...) to understand what features are needed for them to address the tasks at hand and not what MenSys, Serenity Systems International et al think are the "new features" which are needed. The bottom-line issue is; whose "words" can one take to the bank?  ???  :-X

Lastly, re:
Quote
New features will be added at a later stage...

So, whilst the "Grass is growing.. the horses are starving"? Yeah right! Elvis Presley (who has something in common with OS/2) sang a song that is titled it is believed - "It's (new features that are needed by some users) Now Or Never".  ;D ;D ;D
 

« Last Edit: 2008.04.15, 16:42:39 by saborion2 »

saborion2

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Re: My eCS 2.0 hopes...
« Reply #17 on: 2008.04.15, 21:13:33 »
Quote
but eCS will arrive when it is ready for prime time.

Sometimes "waiting" for something is good; but, "waiting forever" for that something is bad.  :( :( :(

Take a look at what happens when a particular "something" does not arrive:

Quote

The biofuel factor in rising food prices

"The severity of the problem has been highlighted by recent violent food riots in Egypt, Cameroon, Haiti, and other emerging nations...."

http://www.news.com/8301-11128_3-9918741-54.html


Talk about the "times" around the world getting tough.  ???

« Last Edit: 2008.04.15, 21:34:08 by saborion2 »

craigm

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Re: My eCS 2.0 hopes...
« Reply #18 on: 2008.04.16, 01:25:30 »
Well I should of given a time line in this talk, I was just hoping to get Firefox 3.0 in the install right out of the gate. I believe Firefox 3.0 is at its last beta and should soon go gold. Once that happens and eCS has its version done, I am hoping it goes prime time. I am not sure what the hold up is, I might never know, nor do I really care. I put my trust in them since they are doing a lot better then if I was given command.

I guess I am looking at it like this: eCS 1.0 (2001-07-10) to now eCS 2.0 RC4. that is seven years. That could mean that version 3.0 will come out in 2015 (eeek). Now I could be blowing smoke...again I have no idea, but I can try to see a pattern from the past.

Don't take this in a negative light what so ever, I will wait happily until 2.0 final. I'm just looking at it as more in the box now...less I have to install latter =)

saborion2

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Re: My eCS 2.0 hopes...
« Reply #19 on: 2008.04.16, 04:44:11 »
Well I should of given a time line in this talk, I was just hoping to get Firefox 3.0 in the install right out of the gate. I believe Firefox 3.0 is at its last beta and should soon go gold. Once that happens and eCS has its version done, I am hoping it goes prime time. I am not sure what the hold up is, I might never know, nor do I really care. I put my trust in them since they are doing a lot better then if I was given command.

I guess I am looking at it like this: eCS 1.0 (2001-07-10) to now eCS 2.0 RC4. that is seven years. That could mean that version 3.0 will come out in 2015 (eeek). Now I could be blowing smoke...again I have no idea, but I can try to see a pattern from the past.

Don't take this in a negative light what so ever, I will wait happily until 2.0 final. I'm just looking at it as more in the box now...less I have to install latter =)

This comment by "craigm" was just neat...; but, let me add this to it: let us take a look back at what has happened in the past which may provide us with an indication of what the future can/may be like; and, it goes like this. Since the early 1980's about the time of introduction of the Personal Computer among others we currently have had several iterations of Apple's xxx's, UNIXs', Windows' xxxs, OS/2's xxxs; and, hundreds of one called Linux and more iterations of all of these to come; so, the question at this time is: what will all these hundreds of different iterations of Operating Systems do differently in the next few months or years for the world that they could not have done over the last thirty or so years. Added to all of these, now we are being told that "New features (bordering on enhancements to eCS) will be added at a later stage" - how sad.  :( :( :(  And, mind you - How do we stay clear of the mouse traps (lock-ins).  ::)  ;D ::).
« Last Edit: 2008.04.16, 07:05:20 by saborion2 »

warpcafe

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Re: My eCS 2.0 hopes...
« Reply #20 on: 2008.04.16, 10:06:09 »
Hi,

Quote
so, the question at this time is: what will all these hundreds of different iterations of Operating Systems do differently in the next few months or years for the world that they could not have done over the last thirty or so years.

When looking back at what Win3.0 became, basically it's like this:
They (MS) launch a new OS "flavor". Some weeks later, the first 3rd party tools arise that fill in the gaps of what MS missed or delivered poorly. Upon the next release, these tools were incorporated by MS in a poor manner on their own, but in the same time, MS changed the interfaces so that the 3rd party stuff does not work any more. But, as MS has again failed to fill in the new gaps, a new 3rd party something will arise.
With OS's, MS does three things for years: 1) retain control 2) avoid competition 3) undermine standards

Innovation? Nope. MS does not innovate. Almost everything they came up with in OS successors was the washed-out flavor of something somebody else invented. If it's file systems, active directory or whatever. The only thing they really do good is to make their parts work together.

For the other OS's? Did they innovate? Mac: Yes, def, merely at the design point of view but also with doing a OS that runs Linux without people caring about - that's a damn good job. Think of that in matters to eCS... as for Linux? I can't tell. I don't care. Their main invention was the fact that it's free and community-driven. I will start to take Linux for serious if "they" manage to give me CD that I can install without having to find myself editing config files.
And I don't like Linux' communities attitude to reinvent the wheel and deliver software that basically can do everything but needs changing 4 different config files and a 3-line-wide commandline argument instead of providing 2 or 3 selectable default configurations that work in 98% of the cases.

As for eCS and innovation... hm. We're basically only "meetoo" wherever possible, aren't we? Voyager certainly is innovation... to some extent. The basic question is: What is innovation? How do you want to measure it?

Talking about measurement and coming back to the question: What have all these things done for mankind in the last decades? It has changed communication, the way we interact and how we connect to each other (see using this forum for instance). What else? Nothing I'm afraid. Still people are starving on this planet, diseases are still not cured, the rich get richer, well... and still human rights is something where room is left for innovation and improvement, not to talk about environment. Hey, BTW: Where's the paperless office they promised 10 years ago, heck?
To summarize IT since the 1980s: If I wouldn't make my living out of IT, I could pretty well do without I guess. ;)

Cheers,
Thomas
« Last Edit: 2008.04.16, 10:10:01 by warpcafe »
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By definition, there are already enough people to do that"
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saborion2

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Re: My eCS 2.0 hopes...
« Reply #21 on: 2008.04.16, 16:20:08 »
This was written by none other than "warpcafe"  ;)

Quote
As for eCS and innovation... hm. We're basically only "meetoo" wherever possible, aren't we? Voyager certainly is innovation... to some extent. The basic question is: What is innovation? How do you want to measure it?

Talking about measurement and coming back to the question: What have all these things done for mankind in the last decades? It has changed communication, the way we interact and how we connect to each other (see using this forum for instance). What else? Nothing I'm afraid. Still people are starving on this planet, diseases are still not cured, the rich get richer, well... and still human rights is something where room is left for innovation and improvement, not to talk about environment. Hey, BTW: Where's the paperless office they promised 10 years ago, heck?
To summarize IT since the 1980s: If I wouldn't make my living out of IT, I could pretty well do without I guess. Wink

But let me attempt to add to and to repeat:
Quote
What have all these things done for mankind in the last decades? It has changed communication, the way we interact and how we connect to each other (see using this forum for instance). What else? Nothing I'm afraid. Still people are starving on this planet, diseases are still not cured, the rich get richer, well... and still human rights is something where room is left for innovation and improvement, not to talk about environment.

In the United States of America where I live; and, let us not forget that "banks all around the world were the homes of OS/2" in bygone years; so, with millions of people living in the United States of America loosing their homes for what ever reasons is indeed highly questionable when one takes the factor of "innovation" into consideration. With particular reference to the latter can we still regard the actions of "millions of people living in the United States of America loosing their homes for what ever reasons" - (innovative) within the context of the Information Technology (IT) centric world in which we live today :o ::)  >:(

Hence, "My (our) eCS 2.0 hopes..."    ;)
     
« Last Edit: 2008.04.16, 16:22:28 by saborion2 »

saborion2

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Re: My eCS 2.0 hopes...
« Reply #22 on: 2008.04.17, 05:54:08 »
Quote
As for eCS and innovation... hm. We're basically only "meetoo" wherever possible, aren't we? Voyager certainly is innovation... to some extent. The basic question is: What is innovation? How do you want to measure it?

To repeat the question:
Quote
What is innovation? How do you want to measure it?

Hmmm... What I think would be "innovative" where the OS/2-eCS Operating Systems are concerned would be the ability to just load the latest release of OS/2-eCS onto the most modern computer hardware and away you/we go "hitting the ground running".  ;D ;D ;D

Saijin_Naib

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Re: My eCS 2.0 hopes...
« Reply #23 on: 2008.04.17, 07:26:44 »
Thats not innovative in any way, that's a requirement of any halfway decent OS these days.

OS/2 needs a way to stand out among the big 3, and so far, it doesnt have the looks (Apple) swoob (Linux) nor the programs (windows). It does however, have security through obscurity, so maybe it can find a niche somehow.

saborion2

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Re: My eCS 2.0 hopes...
« Reply #24 on: 2008.04.17, 14:03:30 »
Quote
Thats not innovative in any way, that's a requirement of any halfway decent OS these days.

OS/2 needs a way to stand out among the big 3, and so far, it doesnt have the looks (Apple) swoob (Linux) nor the programs (windows). It does however, have security through obscurity, so maybe it can find a niche somehow.

Why does OS/2 have to look like
Quote
(Apple) swoob (Linux)
and
Quote
have the same programs like (Windows)
I guess that we have forgotten the term - "To Each His Own". Ever wonder what will the scenarios within the OS/2, Windows and Linux environments be when all of the "OS/2 Bounties" have been successfully hunted down!  8)
« Last Edit: 2008.04.17, 14:56:49 by saborion2 »

Saijin_Naib

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Re: My eCS 2.0 hopes...
« Reply #25 on: 2008.04.17, 14:48:04 »
It doesnt have to look like Apple, nor have the interface effects of Linux, nor the same programs as windows, but in order to attract people who don't know about it for what it is, it is going to need to offer people something. It should have an attractive GUI, this is more or less required now. It should have a pleasant and "cool" interface effects, even if they are simple. Heck, update the window animation so it does more than just show the rectangle on open/close. I said have a program library LIKE windows, not the same programs. I would ideally like to have a working win32 runtime like WINE so I can run programs that I need/like, but thats me. I would be happy to see OS/2 have a FOSS or even a OSS library that is rich enough to be able to make it so OS/2 can perform in the same capacity as windows/linux can, with the same ease. Please, don't even try to argue this, for the OS/2 software library is nowhere near this point.


Finally, why I came to this thread today: A new LVM program. I think we should have a PM GUI front-end to DFSEE as a part of OS/2 from the get-go. We need a program that can make drives/volumes function with OS/2 out of the box, and the built-in LVM tools are simply not up to the task. If this means increasing my OS/2 license cost 15$, so be it. I'd love to see Jan get all that money for DFSEE, it's more or less the shit. Imagine being able to actually do everything DFSEE can from the comfort of the PMshell with a nice, well-laid out GUI program? I think that would really help users, myself included. DFSEE is rather intimidating and daunting, even after reading the info.
« Last Edit: 2008.04.17, 14:54:01 by Saijin_Naib »

saborion2

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Re: My eCS 2.0 hopes...
« Reply #26 on: 2008.04.17, 16:03:16 »
Quote
It doesnt have to look like Apple, nor have the interface effects of Linux, nor the same programs as windows, but in order to attract people who don't know about it for what it is, it is going to need to offer people something. It should have an attractive GUI, this is more or less required now. It should have a pleasant and "cool" interface effects, even if they are simple. Heck, update the window animation so it does more than just show the rectangle on open/close. I said have a program library LIKE windows, not the same programs. I would ideally like to have a working win32 runtime like WINE so I can run programs that I need/like, but thats me. I would be happy to see OS/2 have a FOSS or even a OSS library that is rich enough to be able to make it so OS/2 can perform in the same capacity as windows/linux can, with the same ease. Please, don't even try to argue this, for the OS/2 software library is nowhere near this point.

Yeah right; and, just to repeat:
Quote
It doesnt have to look like Apple, nor have the interface effects of Linux, nor the same programs as windows, but in order to attract people who don't know about it for what it is, it is going to need to offer people something. It should have an attractive GUI, this is more or less required now. It should have a pleasant and "cool" interface effects, even if they are simple. Heck, update the window animation so it does more than just show the rectangle on open/close. I said have a program library LIKE windows, not the same programs. I would ideally like to have a working win32 runtime like WINE so I can run programs that I need/like, but thats me.

"Different Strokes For Different Folks"

Quote
The Linux Desktop team explained:

    An explanation: as a public, for-profit company, Red Hat must create products and technologies with an eye on the bottom line, and with desktops, this is much harder to do than with servers. The desktop market suffers from having one dominant vendor, and some people still perceive that today's Linux desktops simply don't provide a practical alternative.

Instead, Red Hat is focusing on desktop software that works with its server products aimed at businesses and developers.

A product called Red Hat Global Desktop that is targeted specifically at resellers, which focus on emerging markets, has been delayed for almost a year because of business issues. The company hopes to release it "soon," according to its corporate blog.

http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9921113-7.html?tag=nefd.top


With all that was said by you from the above quotes... I am just curious enough to be reminded as to how computers talked to one another or how persons collaborated with each other before the advent of the ubiquitous "browser" or the "GUI". ;D  Perhaps our distinguished "Star Treckie" colleague "RobertM" would be kind enough to fill us in on the old school "COMMAND LINE" Star Trek Cultures. and how missions were accomplished. ::) ::) ::) ???

« Last Edit: 2008.04.17, 16:47:50 by saborion2 »

Saijin_Naib

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Re: My eCS 2.0 hopes...
« Reply #27 on: 2008.04.17, 17:29:48 »
I never said to remove the Commandline. If you wish to stay in the 80s, so be it. Theres a wonderful browser for you called Lynx. It removes all of the rich content that the internet provides to give you the least user-friendly experience possible. Similarly, I'd suggest removing the WPS from your config.sys and just booting to CMD, because clearly, the GUI holds no value for you  ::)

The sad reality is, the GUI is essential now, and the WPS, though well-featured, is showing its age. This alone is enough to deter most prospective users. It needs a nice refresh, a clean, more modern styling, but this does not mean it needs to change or go away.

As with any good GUI, it should be customizable. So if you want the WPS to look as it does now, you can. But, the ability to have a more modern and sleek WPS should be there.
« Last Edit: 2008.04.17, 17:32:46 by Saijin_Naib »

saborion2

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Re: My eCS 2.0 hopes...
« Reply #28 on: 2008.04.17, 19:52:07 »
This is exactly the point I am getting at; you said:

I never said to remove the Commandline. If you wish to stay in the 80s, so be it. Theres a wonderful browser for you called Lynx. It removes all of the rich content that the internet provides to give you the least user-friendly experience possible. Similarly, I'd suggest removing the WPS from your config.sys and just booting to CMD, because clearly, the GUI holds no value for you  ::)

The sad reality is, the GUI is essential now, and the WPS, though well-featured, is showing its age. This alone is enough to deter most prospective users. It needs a nice refresh, a clean, more modern styling, but this does not mean it needs to change or go away.

As with any good GUI, it should be customizable. So if you want the WPS to look as it does now, you can. But, the ability to have a more modern and sleek WPS should be there.

Now, without you conveniently skipping over some issues mentioned; for instance the reference with regards to one of the more prominent Linux Distributions (Red Hat Linux) - can you explain how is it that "Linux" in all the adornments as you make it out to be is not up to now has been known to have had any significant market share impact when compared to "Windows"; and, all that is being said here is that if the OS/2 Operating System was given all the attention (enhancements introduced) that is needed then what would you have had to say?  ::)

BTW, How is one to be convinced that the "nice refresh, a clean, more modern styling" in the GUIs that you are seeking do not constitute a dumbing down from the Geeky
Quote
In the Beginning was the Command Line
http://www.spack.org/wiki/
Processes/Procedures (with which OS/2 is well known to be associated); and, perhaps that which is also preventing Linux (with all the help it is getting) from claiming a spot in the worldwide "Desk Top" market space?  ??? Maybe, time will allow OS/2 to come into its own; or, VOYAGER or CASSINI will be there (will arrive in time) to complete the missions. ;D ;D ;D


 

Saijin_Naib

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Re: My eCS 2.0 hopes...
« Reply #29 on: 2008.04.17, 22:18:57 »
I cant understand your post :\