OS2VOICE Speak Up - February 25. 2018

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[22:17:21] <roderick> hello
[22:18:19] <ppVicente> hello
[23:24:42] <Alfred_> Hello?
[01:59:57] <roderick> Hello everybody
[02:00:35] <roderick> Hello everybody
[02:00:40] <Gord> Hello
[02:00:44] <Igor> Gidday.
[02:00:55] <LewisR> Hi!
[02:00:57] <roderick> Well sorry for not having send out more information to mailing lists about this second speak.
[02:01:17] <roderick> It has been a somewhat different week. A familiy member is doing oke but was taken to intensive care wednesday.
[02:01:26] <roderick> So things went slightly different then planned.
[02:01:43] <roderick> Put differently I was hoping for a bigger crowd....
[02:02:07] <roderick> Please note in your agenda that the next speakup will on March 3
[02:02:25] <roderick> Time will be annouched later in an email I will send out.
[02:02:34] <roderick> The speakup will be with the developers from Bitwiseworks.
[02:03:31] <roderick> Speak up normally lasts 1 tot 2 hours...
[02:03:35] <roderick> But that is just about it.
[02:03:48] <roderick> Today people from Arca Noae are our virtual guest.
[02:03:56] <LewisR> :-)
[02:03:57] <roderick> Lewis is here
[02:04:06] <roderick> and Alex.
[02:04:31] <LewisR> ...and Paul...
[02:04:49] <roderick> Guys the floor is yours... I am hoping for some people from Asia
[02:04:53] <roderick> And aaah from down under
[02:04:57] <roderick> Paul Smedley
[02:05:19] <roderick> Morning Paul I hope this speakup is at a more convient moment for you then the previous one...
[02:06:06] <LewisR> So, what would you guys like to hear today? Alex is making great strides on getting NLV building. Our first target language will be German.
[02:06:10] <roderick> Anyway my commercial break is over. So now back to the OS/2 guys...
[02:07:24] <LewisR> Actually, related to this, if anyone has any non-English printer fixpacks, please contact us. Alex has the gory details of what we're looking to collect.
[02:08:24] <Alfred_> Hi, sorry I've been silent again since ~Xmas (in case you didn't notice, I'm Alfredo Fdez., from Spain)
[02:08:28] <Alfred_> Re: NLV, I would like to know -for obvious reasons- what are the plans for Spanish?
[02:09:23] <Igor> Keen to know more of the ArcaOS support for hypervisors. We discussed this end of last year at our local user group meeting. Getting drivers sorted for bare metal installs will always be problematic for us. Going virtual gives known config across wider hardware base.
[02:09:29] <Alfred_> I may have a look at printer fixpacks later, but I don't think I have anything that wasn't widely available
[02:09:55] <altsan> We'd also be happy for MCP1/2 ISOs in languages that we don't have...
[02:10:16] <altsan> Spanish is one that we are looking for.
[02:10:24] <Alfred_> I have MCP2 ISOs in several languages so msg me about that
[02:10:42] <LewisR> Alfredo, Spanish is on the list. Excellent. Thanks!
[02:10:44] <Alfred_> obviously including Spanish
[02:11:03] <martini> Hi
[02:11:05] <martini> altsan: Let me check about the Spanish ISO. I'm not sure if the one that I have is working fine.
[02:11:48] <Alfred_> My Spanish ISO boots and installs OK in VPC machines
[02:12:11] <Alfred_> it is esentially where my main OS install came from some 10+ years ago
[02:12:14] <mas1961> I have an unopened shrink-wrap box of OS/2 Version 4 Upgrade in Spanish
[02:12:24] <altsan> Also looking for Taiwanese, Portuguese, and Italian (IIRC)
[02:12:42] <altsan> And Dutch
[02:12:44] <Alfred_> yes, I have older Spanish OS2s too, don't remember which ones
[02:13:30] <altsan> And yes, we are legally entitled to have them, just for the record.
[02:13:47] <Alfred_> OK, cool -- when we are done here I will check my storage and report back -- IIRC I have some Chinese and Japanese
[02:14:16] <altsan> I have Japanese and Simplified Chinese, but need Traditional.
[02:14:17] <Alfred_> but I don't remember Taiwanese (Simplified Chinese?) specifically
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[02:14:36] <Alfred_> sorry, I meant Traditional, as I said will check
[02:14:52] <altsan> Thanks!
[02:15:17] <Alfred_> not at all : )
[02:15:34] <LewisR> Igor, we are planning to improve VM support. Currently, we clearly support VBox & VPC (through 2007, at least). We know that VPC 2010 did away with guest-host file sharing, and Samba is the solution there (we can certainly boot and run and access the network under VPC 2010).
[02:16:27] <LewisR> Other hypervisors which are currently problematic include Hyper-V (should e solved for the most part when we get USB 3) and KVM.
[02:16:58] <Igor> What about QEMU? or VMware Tools (they dropped the tools package after ESX 4 I think)
[02:17:24] <roderick> I have heard reports that VMware never had OS/2 add ons ?
[02:17:30] <roderick> And QEMU did work.
[02:17:35] <LewisR> Yes, QEMU and ESXi, as well as Workstation and Fusion are on our list.
[02:18:02] <roderick> But as it stands right now why not use Virtual since you have the add ons with mouse integration and click board...
[02:18:10] <roderick> I meant Virtualbox
[02:18:31] <LewisR> We know that there are still some audio issues with Fusion, though I did a nice, working install of Workstation 12, in testing. I have not tried QEMU recently, nor ESXi after version 5.
[02:18:41] <LewisR> We are planning to do some things to better select a working audio driver during installation when possible or at least not force Uniaud.

[02:18:50] <martini> Q: Lewis I always wondered which are the most common (or top 10) commercial use of ArcaOS (and OS/2) on these days. Without naming any specific customer can you tell us what kind of software are corporate customers running ArcaOS (Banking, Retail, etc)  ?
[02:19:06] <LewisR> Excellent question.
[02:19:22] <LewisR> Insurance, manufacturing (robotics controls)...
[02:19:42] <LewisR> and some point of sale systems.
[02:20:09] <LewisR> By far, insurance and manufacturing have been the most active clients for us.
[02:20:30] <martini> Any chance to offer ArcaOS on ATMs ? Was there any request?
[02:21:21] <LewisR> In terms of what software they are using, even in insurance, they are running a customized application, and these systems are isolated and away from the internet. No recent request for ATMs, yet, though we do have a lead on some used ATM dealers.
[02:21:55] <martini> Thanks.
[02:22:12] <LewisR> Surely.
[02:22:51] <LewisR> Oh, and we've had some consulting for InJoy running on gateway machines running either eCS or ArcaOS.
[02:23:35] <LewisR> The good news is that with the latest Multimac drivers, we are seeing really good network throughput.
[02:23:46] <LewisR> This keeps us viable on modern systems.
[02:23:50] <LewisR> Speaking of which...
[02:24:19] <Alfred_> [For the record, I have had a customer for 15+ years who does plastic profiles, but tbh I don't know about what he uses OS/2 for, specifically. He has mentioned repeatedly the need for continuity over long periods of time.]
[02:24:44] <LewisR> Interesting.
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[02:25:20] <LewisR> We have another customer of a reseller in the plastics industry, but like yours, I have no clue what application he is using.
[02:25:23] <Gord> LewisR, do you have any comment to make on downloads/sales of 5.0.2?
[02:26:04] <LewisR> They continue to please us, Gordon. I'm no longer amazed, because we are just selling well, and consistently.
[02:26:29] <LewisR> Renewals are coming in, and those are perhaps the greatest indicator of acceptance in the community.
[02:27:17] <LewisR> IOW, if you spend the money for a personal license, and you've used the software for six months, it's a conscious decision to renew support for another year, and we are seeing great renewal numbers.
[02:27:35] <Gord> Good.
[02:27:47] <LewisR> We are also still selling fresh licenses, and this is another key indicator for us, that it wasn't just the initial hype (well, release).
[02:28:16] <LewisR> We just moved a sizeable block of commercial licenses to a large customer, too.
[02:28:46] <LewisR> Ask klipp what he thinks of ArcaOS on Intel systems. ;-)
[02:29:30] <LewisR> Guys, I'm telling you, 5.0.3 will be even smoother than 5.0.2, and 5.1 promises to be incredible.
[02:29:37] <valerius> BTW, VBox additions' shared folders support is in progress. Also QEMU port is being worked on, if someone interested. But it is not financed now at all, so it has been frozen. There is a work going on on support for hardware virtualization on OS/2 host of VirtualBox. So far, it's almost working on top of OS/4 kernel. OS/2 guest now can be run successfuly on OS/2 host. So, if there is an interest, sponsoring request are welcomed. If someone wants AMD-V/VT-x support on IBM kernels, donations and sponsoring is also welcomed. The same applies to fat32.ifs I am workin on too. If you'd like my assistance and feature requests, please sponsor too. (cf: Arca Noae guys) :)
[02:30:40] <LewisR> Thanks for that, valerius.
[02:31:25] <Igor> Definitely keen on QEMU. Don't laugh too loud but keen to see how viable ArcaOS would be on a RaspberryPI (ARM CPU) with QEMU x86.
[02:31:37] <Gord> Can you estimate a release date for 5.0.3?
[02:32:26] <LewisR> Best guess for 5.0.3, Gordon, is probably June-July, and that's a really rough estimate.
[02:32:35] <Gord> OK
[02:33:27] <LewisR> 5.0.3 is kind of an odd duck, because it will happen along the way to 5.1. IOW, the build system is undergoing substantial changes and reorganization to support NLV. 5.0.3 will come together as we work thorugh the process.
[02:33:58] <LewisR> We have about a half dozen blockers for 5.0.3 (maybe a couple more than that), but they'll get done as we work toward 5.1.
[02:34:13] <LewisR> It just doesn't make sense to make everyone wait for 5.1 for fixes.
[02:34:26] <LewisR> 5.1 is a feature release.
[02:35:31] <LewisR> Among those new features we want to introduce with 5.1 are upgrade and migration, so people don't need to wipe out a 10-year-old working eCS installation to install ArcaOS.
[02:35:32] <valerius> Igor ArcaOS is not viable on ARM at all, because OS/2 kernel is i386, only. But if you want future support for OS/2 API on ARM or amd64, please help the osFree project. There is some work going on on implementing OS/2 API on top of L4 microkernel, but it is in early stage yet. BTW, some commandline OS/2 binaries (pure 32-bit Watcom-built binaries) can already be run successfully, if you don't know

[02:36:05] <martini> Q: I was wondering if for future releases of ArcaOS more enhancements can be put on xWorkplace. It can be interesting if xWorkplace classes names can be organized (to comply to the own standard of the program) and try to merge other WPS classes to that project to bring more order to it. Like taking what it working fine of WPS-Wizard and try to embedded it to XWP.  Or changing the CW-MM...
[02:36:07] <martini> ...classes to the same XWP standards. The issues is that for someone that looks under the hood on WorkplaceShell all the non-IBM-classes looks confusing.
[02:36:49] <LewisR> I would direct all XWP enhancement requests to the Xtracker (xtracker.netlabs.org - is that right?).
[02:37:22] <LewisR> WPS Wizard is nice software, but lacks a solid maintainer.
[02:38:01] <Alfred_> Lewis, https://xtracker.netlabs.org, yes
[02:38:08] <LewisR> Thanks.
[02:38:45] <altsan> Of course, there may be backwards compatibility issues involved in changing class names around.
[02:38:47] <LewisR> We had another RFE recently for ArcaOS Desktop, which I referred to the Xtracker. Remember that other than widgets, ArcaOS Desktop is derived from XWP. It really doesn't make sense for us to make changes for ArcaOS Desktop which don't flow down to us from upstream.
[02:39:07] <LewisR> There is that to consider, absolutely.
[02:40:50] <Alfred_> Martin, you said "issues is that for someone that looks under the hood on WorkplaceShell all the non-IBM-classes looks confusing". What do you mean? All XWP's (non-IBM) classes are well documented IIRC, so what is the problem?
[02:41:50] <valerius> Igor BTW, there is a QEMU 0.11.0 port done by JSawa. It works quite good, though still no HW virtualization support, so far. I plan to update it to newer version and maybe, port the HW acceleration driver
[02:42:21] <Igor> I'd be keen to test.
[02:42:43] <LewisR> Expect a Samba and Kerberos update to the latest available (for 5.0.3), and in 5.1, and enhanced credentials manager for better management of Kerberos tickets. This is really important for those environments where we need to interact with Active Directory (and to some extent, eDirectory, where pluggable authentication is in use with the Kerberos module).
[02:43:11] <LewisR> We are also actively investigating support for UEFI on systems with no CSM. This means the ability to boot on non-BIOS systems "natively."
[02:43:27] <LewisR> Natively=in some fashion not yet determined.
[02:44:35] <martini> Alfred: The main issue is that you have like a lot of classes for WPDrive or WPDesktop. I think (subject to discussion) that a cleaner version will be to have the IBM one (parent) and one child (XWP one). Right not it is kind of confusing if someone will like to do some WPS programing to extend the classes.
[02:45:10] <LewisR> You mean multiple layers of subclassing.
[02:45:42] <valerius> Igor http://bauxite.sakura.ne.jp/tmp/os2/ unfortunately, I don't see the binaries there now, but I can upload them to my ftp, if someone is interested
[02:46:44] <valerius> LewisR do you mean the possibility to add an "external" BIOS CSM module?
[02:47:09] <LewisR> Not sure yet. This is what we are doing in the R&D phase: exploring different possibilities.
[02:47:37] <Alfred_> Martin: if something tries to subclass XWPDrive (or whatever) and you rename that class in a new version of XWP, anything trying to subclass it will no longer be able to find that class by name and will fail.
[02:47:46] <LewisR> The goal is to drop the dependency upon traditional BIOS and vendor-supplied CSM.
[02:48:22] <martiniturbide[m> About XWP: I know that the multple WPS classes childs are required for the functionality and that some developers don't want to consolidate/share their creations, but I think it can be interesting to put some efforts on consolidating that.
[02:49:27] <martiniturbide[m> Alfred: As a little example I think that all  WPDrive childs should be consolidated on  XWPDrive to have more order (under the hood).
[02:50:02] <LewisR> Speaking of classes...
[02:51:08] <LewisR> CWMM needs a solid maintainer. Do you know that digital audio transfer was never added to it? This is one of the enhancements we'd like to see.
[02:52:08] <LewisR> Now, whether it makes sense to consolidate any of these things with something else remains to be seen (frankly, some of us feel that XWP has grown beyond its design limits to include way too much).
[02:53:45] <LewisR> So, who has tried Alex's new Qt-based text editor?
[02:54:07] <LewisR> You really should.
[02:54:21] <LewisR> We plan for it to replace AE.
[02:54:22] <Gord> What is it called?
[02:54:35] <LewisR> Alex, info and link, please.
[02:55:23] <altsan> Tricky for me to type right now... on my phone...
[02:55:28] <LewisR> :-)
[02:55:32] <LewisR> Quick Editor.
[02:55:41] <Alfred_> LewisR, while you are probably (very) right about XWP having grown beyond its original design limits, it would still be very nice to see major open source WPS enhancers converging, so to speak, to cooperate as much as possible with one another without interfering (think of XWP+CWMM combinations, etc.)
[02:55:51] <LewisR> I'll get you the link. one moment... SeaMonkey to the rescue...
[02:56:06] <altsan> Github.org/altsan/quick-text-editor
[02:56:23] <LewisR> https://github.com/altsan/quick-text-editor
[02:56:48] <LewisR> I just had to switch windows and grab it from my recent history...
[02:57:09] <altsan> Technically its name is QE or "quick text editor" but the latter is more or a provisional description
[02:58:06] <LewisR> Alfredo: Where it makes sense, these enhancements should become part of the OS base, it's kind of difficult to make changes like that at this point (we're not IBM). Still, where other things can be merged, they should be.
[02:58:11] <martiniturbide[m> I think that if XWP has grown beyond its design limits, it can be interesting to make stand alone "XWP friendly apps" that are separated but uses the same XWP naming standard to have good coherence and matching with all the WPS desktop.
[02:58:27] <martiniturbide[m> I'm leaving now. Thanks for the chat !!
[02:58:33] <LewisR> Yes, that is an excellent idea.
[02:58:35] <LewisR> Cheers!
[02:59:50] <LewisR> How does everyone feel about us incorporating more Qt-based apps in ArcaOS, especially when we get Qt5?
[03:00:09] <Alfred_> Martin's looks like another way to formulate what I said, seems we're more on less on the same page
[03:00:29] <micrex22> LewisR: Q: hey Lewis, I run ArcaOS on a bunch of T4xes, are there any plans for regular mini PCI wireless cards?
[03:00:45] <Igor> the easier the QT app installion process is the more widely it'll be adopted.
[03:00:47] <LewisR> Well...
[03:01:00] <LewisR> Indeed, so, Igor.
[03:01:10] <LewisR> As I am typing this from my trusty T43...
[03:01:29] <Alfred_> Re.: QT apps I need nothing, but I'll be happy to get anything ready from the get-go. And of course, what Igor said. +1
[03:01:50] <LewisR> I think the Wi-Fi support in Multimac will focus on the cards which currently are *not* already supported by GenMAC.
[03:02:38] <LewisR> IOW, we already have working support for mPCI cards up through the Intel 4965 series (T6x).
[03:02:39] <Alfred_> My target systems will be T42s and T43s initially as well, for the record, so supporting new Wifi (especially n) miniPCI cards would be very nice.
[03:03:03] <micrex22> LewisR The T43 keyboards sure are nice (and no Windows keys!)
[03:03:24] <Alfred_> *n = 100+MBits/s
[03:03:52] <LewisR> Well, if there are mPCI n cards we don't support already, we can always look at them. Here's the neat thing about Multimac: Once the framework is in place, many drivers just "drop into" it.
[03:04:27] <LewisR> Indeed! No Windows keys, sensible placement, and Alps keyswitches (well for some keyboard FRUs, at least)!
[03:05:15] <LewisR> For WiFi, we need to look forward to ac and ax cards, so getting this framework together is crucial, so we're not yet another generation behind.
[03:06:34] <Alfred_> Yep, as bad as laptop keyboards are, at least T42/3 have proper control blocks (pgup/dn,ins,del,home/end) in place, and are strong : )
[03:07:01] <micrex22> yeah the 7 rows are fantastic, it's very much akin to the 84-key space saving buckling spring keyboard
[03:07:15] <micrex22> you don't have to 'guess' where the regular keys have been remapped to
[03:07:25] <LewisR> I am constantly hitting Del when I mean Ins on the T520. The T530 is completely zany.
[03:08:34] <LewisR> I wish there were good, affordable, alternative replacement keyboards available for these machines (not the T43, but more recent systems).
[03:08:42] <altsan> My W500 is the last generation of ThinkPad I will ever buy, unless Lenovo gets a clue someday.
[03:09:14] <LewisR> Very frustrating, I know. The chicklet keys on the T530 are particularly hard to use.
[03:09:28] <LewisR> BTW, speaking of keyboards...
[03:09:35] <Alfred_> Even T43s I must use with a regular keyboard (I do A LOT of text editing) -- newer stuff looks like hell, haha
[03:09:43] <micrex22> LewisR: also the Lenovo chiclet style (while I can 'adapt' and type fairly fast on), still have issues. My finger nails can sometimes can caught 'under' one of the chiclet keycaps, and the shorter travel distance just reduces accuracy.
[03:10:23] <Igor> On the topic of Browsers .... how feasible is it to port Chromium to ArcaOS? Need something that is modern/common and therefore not going to get "Sorry - we don't support your browser" from banks etc...
[03:10:47] <roderick> This is actually something I can partially answer.
[03:11:00] <roderick> VOICE Has been running a browser funding campaign for BWW.
[03:11:14] <Alfred_> And don't forget lack of support from half-assed https implementations (which abound)
[03:11:28] <LewisR> LOL
[03:11:39] <roderick> https://articles.os2voice.org
[03:11:59] <roderick> Yes it seems possible to port Chromium to OS/2.
[03:12:05] <roderick> But its going to take a lot of work!!
[03:12:24] <roderick> The main effort is to port QT (latest version).
[03:12:28] <Alfred_> LewisR, seriously, I often look at websites from Google cache to bypass their https problems
[03:12:36] <roderick> Thats what Chromium uses in the back.
[03:12:40] <Alfred_> Roderick, is it QT5?
[03:12:42] <LewisR> Qt5 should give us the ability to get an alternative browser to the platform. The question is whether that is a more viable option than looking at everything needed for porting rust and being able to build newer Firefoxes.
[03:12:59] <LewisR> Chromium will require Qt5, yes.
[03:13:36] <roderick> Actually multiple QT based browsers....
[03:13:40] <LewisR> I generally deal with the lousy https configurations and browser detection by spoofing my UA.
[03:13:55] <roderick> Then again its not the browser really itself. Its the QT backend that delivers 85% to 90% of the code...
[03:14:09] <Alfred_> The problem with RUST is AFAIK it's only good to get FX running, and it is becoming a sluggish behemoth anyway. OTOH QT5...
[03:14:45] <LewisR> Maybe our friends upstream at Mozilla will see the light and return to their senses.
[03:14:45] <Alfred_> LewisR, I know about UA spoofing, but that's not possible with Links and such
[03:15:02] <LewisR> Agreed. It is not a true solution to the problem.
[03:15:36] <LewisR> Now, what you could use is VBox and run a slim Linux guest there for some sites.
[03:16:33] <LewisR> I'm not a big fan of running a hypervisor on OS/2, but I do have a very light 32-bit Linux build which runs in a fairly small footprint (getting old, now, so time to upgrade).
[03:17:33] <Alfred_> LewisR, thanks for the idea but not really, I use Links for ultra fast browsing. Many alternate browsers like it can do https, just not all the weird hoops and loops lousy sites try to make you go through. If I need to boot a whole alternate machine / virtual guest I might as well run a full fledged beast
[03:17:40] <Alfred_> I mean browser
[03:18:50] <LewisR> My point is that if you only need an alternative for a single application (browser, in this case), a small VM might make sense. I agree, though, that if you can use Links or Lynx, go for it.
[03:20:02] <LewisR> Anyway, Qt5 will be coming, and we'll see which directi9on we take for a browser.
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[03:20:27] <micrex22> LewisR: noscript also makes a lot of sense on OS/2 as well, since it cuts out a lot of bloated javascript (which... you wouldn't really want running anyways)
[03:21:17] <LewisR> Absolutely.
[03:21:40] <LewisR> JS is a real issue for us, and has been a major focus of dmik's recent work for 45.9.
[03:22:01] <LewisR> Of course, now that Alex is getting comfortable with Qt, he may just do a browser when he puts together a mail client. then we'd at least have a matching set which would fit well with the ArcaOS desktop. :-)
[03:22:03] <LewisR> <gdr>
[03:22:10] <Alfred_> So true. I actually do 90+% of my browsing with javascript disabled. How does Chromium (or other QT5 browsers) deal with that?
[03:22:32] <roderick> We will find out by then...
[03:22:37] <LewisR> Well, for one thing, they trend to handle the JS better than FF.
[03:22:41] <roderick> I consider Firefox long term RIP.
[03:23:23] <Alfred_> I still use my (old) SM as a canonical target system for my JS development
[03:23:27] <LewisR> As a SeaMonkey user, I hope against hope that Mozilla comes under new management and returns to Earth.
[03:23:38] <LewisR> :-)
[03:23:40] <Alfred_> there's nothing sensible I haven't been able to do so far
[03:23:44] <roderick> Next to Rust being an issue. One other mayor complaint is that Firefox it s source is updated so massively its hard for Dmitry and BWW
[03:23:52] <roderick> to keep up with the changes.
[03:24:19] <roderick> So we have 2 issue's 1. RUST and 2. To many changes, swapping libraries adding new libraries.
[03:24:30] <Igor> and Firefox isn't all that great for an enterprise environment either.
[03:24:36] <roderick> And this complaint has been voiced a lot.
[03:24:46] <roderick> Then you can use the ESR release Igor.
[03:25:04] <LewisR> Well, we know that as of right now, FF52 ESR is a wall for us. That will probably hold us through 2019 and into 2020, but by that time, we will need an alternative.
[03:26:05] <LewisR> Of course, there are those of us who dislike Chromium, so finding a decent alternative (especially for those of us who prefer an integrated browser suite) will be challenging.
[03:26:15] <Alfred_> I use ESR FXs for my parents Win32 laptops' and such -- so painless compared to 'cleeding edge' FX
[03:26:41] <LewisR> No doubt.
[03:27:21] <Alfred_> *bleeding. But for myself, I'd prefer to see something SeaMonkeyish -- Practically all I do is browser + mail all day long
[03:28:06] <LewisR> Yes, exactly. For us, the integrated suite makes sense. Webmail is not an option (for me).
[03:29:00] <LewisR> Anyway, do we have anything else concerning ArcaOS or the subscription services?
[03:29:15] <Alfred_> Exactly, no point in two very memory-hungry apps competing for resources, and I have been known to handle 10+ mailboxes automatically with SM, webmail is a no-go here for me either.
[03:29:46] <Alfred_> LewisR, sorry, sure, back to topic : )
[03:29:59] <LewisR> No worries.
[03:30:18] <Alfred_> Has the USB boot stuff been tried on T42s and T43s?
[03:30:31] <LewisR> Yes!
[03:30:32] <Alfred_> My own stuff is getting old : )
[03:30:45] <LewisR> I'm running the very latest 32-bit USB stack right here.
[03:30:53] <altsan> I tested it successfully on an R31
[03:31:13] <LewisR> I can boot with it, transfer files to sticks and drives, and run my other USB things.
[03:31:23] <LewisR> Works just fine on the T43.
[03:31:39] <Alfred_> Cool! Booting and installing an updated system is becoming a real concern here as I'm running out of spares
[03:31:50] <LewisR> No doubt!
[03:32:26] <LewisR> We're working on an update package for existing ArcaOS 5.0.x system to the 5.0.2 level. We want to get everyone the updates released in the latest ISO, without requiring everyone to reinstall from scratch (or download a 1GB image just to pick a handful of bits).
[03:33:14] <Alfred_> Not a problem for me yet, but very kind of you : ))
[03:33:20] <LewisR> :-)
[03:33:50] <LewisR> Anything else?
[03:34:48] <roderick> It seems not...
[03:34:51] <roderick> Going once
[03:34:51] <Igor> Anythought to producing a solid easy to install MS SQL Server ODBC connector?
[03:35:04] <Alfred_> Yes, you said migration is not planned before 5.1?
[03:35:19] <LewisR> Okay, let me take these in order:
[03:35:24] <Alfred_> i.e you'll be able to migrate old systems with 5.1 but not 5.0.x
[03:35:46] <LewisR> Igor: No specific plans, but we would surely be interested in looking at something like this.
[03:35:58] <micrex22> LewisR: interesting... so the Intel PRO/Wireless 2915ABG already works with ArcaOS then?
[03:36:21] <LewisR> Yes. Works with GenMAC quite well.
[03:36:30] <LewisR> All modes.
[03:36:34] <micrex22> Guess I'll need to get a couple :p
[03:36:50] <micrex22> I want a stand alone OS/2 laptop at work that can connect to corporate wifi
[03:37:03] <micrex22> then I can have a peace of mind after dealing with windows 10 and server 2016 all day
[03:37:06] <LewisR> ;-)
[03:37:07] <LewisR> Alfredo: Migration and Upgrade are 2 different things for us.
[03:37:43] <LewisR> Migration: Existing Warp 4, MCP, MCP2, eCS system -> ArcaOS 5.1.
[03:38:01] <LewisR> Upgrade: ArcaOS 5.0.x -> ArcaOS 5.1.
[03:38:48] <LewisR> Let me clarify migration a bit further.
[03:39:46] <LewisR> Migration (without the ArcaUpdater product - planned!) will go from any SMP-licensed OS/2 distro to ArcaOS 5.1.
[03:40:04] <LewisR> This does not even require a new IBM license.
[03:40:51] <LewisR> ArcaUpdater is a different type of migration, in the sense that ArcaUpdater will start with a non-MCP-licensed OS/2 distro (Warp 4) and move that to ArcaOS 5.1.
[03:41:01] <LewisR> There is a new license required for this.
[03:41:27] <micrex22> LewisR: I was kind of curious, will ArcaOS ever be released without the Windows 3.1 portions? Or is that baked into the last 4.52 IBM relaese
[03:41:29] <LewisR> Upgrade (ArcaOS -> ArcaOS) does not require a new IBM license.
[03:41:54] <LewisR> It's rather baked in. You can opt not to install it, of course.
[03:42:30] <micrex22> So then I guess Microsoft would always need to be contracted for a license, too bad
[03:42:54] <roderick> That contract is long gone...
[03:43:10] <LewisR> Well, that's on IBM. IOW, they licensed Warp 4 to us, as-is.
[03:44:07] <LewisR> The reason for the requirement of the IBM license for the ArcaUpdater product is that ArcaOS includes SMP. We can't provide an SMP license without providing a Warp 4 license.
[03:44:35] <micrex22> LewisR: my last question, do you use the soundmax driver for your T43s or the universal one that's included with ArcaOS
[03:44:42] <LewisR> We have no plans to provide a distro of ArcaOS without SMP as an included, installable option, so... IBM license.
[03:45:07] <LewisR> I use Uniaud these days on my T43. Sound quality is excellent.
[03:45:35] <LewisR> It's been great chatting with everyone again. Hope to see everyone at WSE or Warpstock (look for an announcement about Warpstock here in the next day or so!).
[03:45:56] <LewisR> Warpstock here = Warpstock North America
[03:46:09] <roderick> Thanks for dropping by everybody
[03:46:21] <LewisR> Cheers
[03:46:23] <roderick> Thanks AN people for dropping by.
[03:46:29] <-- LewisR has left #os2voice
[03:46:34] <roderick> Logs will be posted later on os2voice.org.
[03:46:36] <altsan> Cheers
[03:46:43] <-- altsan  has quit (Quit: Bye)
[03:47:06] <-- abwillis  has left #os2voice
[03:47:20] <mas1961> Thanks
[03:47:20] <Igor> Cheers.
[03:48:22] <TerryW> Thanks
[03:48:33] <Alfred_> Thank you
[03:48:36] <Gord> Igor, what user group do you belong to?
[03:49:38] <Igor> Wellington , New Zealand
[03:49:54] <Igor> Down to 5 regulars now
[03:50:08] <Gord> OK.  Is the group listed on the VOICE website's Groups page?
[03:50:22] <Gord> If not, would you like it added?
[03:50:36] <Igor> not sure. We have a web site but don't even bother to update it.
[03:50:47] <Gord> URL?
[03:51:24] <Igor> www.os2.org.nz
[03:51:26] <Gord> I'm doing some work updating the VOICE website.
[03:51:36] <Igor> Hah - last update in 2011
[03:51:39] <Gord> OK.
[03:51:59] <Igor> I might look at that when I can find some time.
[03:52:06] <Gord> Contact person?
[03:52:16] <Gord> OK
[03:52:36] <Igor> Igor Pool   igorpool@xtra.co.nz
[03:52:43] <Gord> Got it.
[03:53:39] <Igor> We always finish our meetings at the local pub so there is added incentive to turn up :-)
[03:53:57] <Gord> Sounds perfect!
[03:56:41] <roderick> Everybody thank you for coming.
[03:56:47] <roderick> Its 02:00 here in the Netherlands/.
[03:56:52] <roderick> I am going to bed.
[03:57:00] <roderick> See you at the next speakup!
[03:58:32] <Alfred_> Same here. Night everyone!
[03:59:02] <Igor> Time for lunch. Bye.
[05:02:38] <Smedles> oops missed it - was out dog walking :)