Author Topic: Translating ArcaOS to local languages  (Read 783 times)

Martin Iturbide

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Translating ArcaOS to local languages
« on: June 19, 2018, 03:04:38 pm »
Hi

At the Warpstock Europe 2018 live stream I saw an Alex Taylor presentation about translating ArcaOS to local languages. In short Alex said which languages version of OS/2 Arca Noae has and which are missing. Arca Noae also opened the door for the community to help with translation and said that the translation made by the contributors will be part of the open source projects (like XWorkplace).

The video replay is not available yet, and I will like to see if I can translate some parts of ArcaOS to spanish, but I forgot which was the Arca Noae email to contact them and ask for instructions. Do you have it around? I also want to see how Arca Noae has organized the components that requires translation for ArcaOS to see where I should start.

Any other thoughts about translating ArcaOS to your local language?

Regards
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 03:06:35 pm by Martin Iturbide »
Martin Iturbide
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Laurenz Sommer

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Re: Translating ArcaOS to local languages
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2018, 03:40:44 pm »
The email adress is dev-info at arcanoae dot com.

I encourage everyone who is interested in an ArcaOS version in his language to volunteer to help translating! From what I can see (I am not speaking for Arca Noae, just a translator myself) the number of translators is quite limited at the moment.

Laurenz

Martin Iturbide

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Re: Translating ArcaOS to local languages
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2018, 01:53:41 pm »
Thanks Laurenz, I just wrote them.

I have interest to know the procedure or how the translation process is organized. I think if it will be public it will be easier for people to collaborate (maybe it is on the public Arca Noae wiki and I haven't found it yet).

I know it is not our case and it may be hard to get it, but I envy how Ubuntu organizes their translations collaboration on their Launchpad.

Regards

Martin Iturbide
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: Translating ArcaOS to local languages
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2018, 06:51:44 pm »
Hi

I registered to the AN Translation team. Lewis just game the access to the mailing list and welcome the new guys.

I can say that they have created an interesting organization system to follow the translations with their Mantis tickets. I initially think I kind of understand how things are organized, but I will like to coordinate first with other spanish translator to do some trial and error and see if I'm translating some files in a correct way.

For example I need to validate if I'm saving the txt files in a correct way for the special characters and  what kind of expressions should be use (third person, formal or informal spanish).

Regards
Martin Iturbide
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: Translating ArcaOS to local languages
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2018, 10:57:54 pm »
Hi

If someone has a copy of OS/2 Warp 4.52 (MCP2) in Italian or Traditional Chinese please let me know !!

Regards
Martin Iturbide
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Andreas Schnellbacher

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Re: Translating ArcaOS to local languages
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2018, 12:15:52 am »
For example I need to validate if I'm saving the txt files in a correct way for the special characters
If I understand you correctly, that might depend on your text editor. A newer Notepad would probably be the worst one for translating OS/2 files, because of its UTF-16 LE encoding. ;-)

E.g., MED and EPM/NEPMD work well. But also AE.exe works (available as E.exe replacement). Just use the correct system codepage. That might be 850 in the case of Spanish. The used font should have all the special chars. I prefer System VIO 16x8. That works well with Western European languages. (For other codepages and other fonts, the Java editor Jedit might be a better choice.)

and  what kind of expressions should be use (third person, formal or informal spanish).
For German, I've used the following sources (for eCS):
  • An old OS/2 version which is in your language.
  • Word lists, as being used bei IBM's Translation Manager/2. I would contact Jacques van Leeuwen for that. He's on the translation list.
  • Standard: IBM's Common User Access 91 (also part of TM/2, as I can remember)
  • Standard: Spanish spelling
  • Already translated texts, esp. by other people
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 12:21:48 am by Andreas Schnellbacher »

André Heldoorn

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Re: Translating ArcaOS to local languages
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2018, 10:43:58 am »
Quote
  • An old OS/2 version which is in your language.
  • Word lists, as being used bei IBM's Translation Manager/2. I would contact Jacques van Leeuwen for that. He's on the translation list.
  • Standard: IBM's Common User Access 91 (also part of TM/2, as I can remember)
  • Standard: Spanish spelling
  • Already translated texts, esp. by other people

And in that order, preferably. Using e.g. HELP to find a typical IBM-word hardly slows you down. If you were using OS/2 in the past, then you'll still be able to recognize or miss those alternative words without having to actually install an old version.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 03:56:26 pm by Martin Iturbide »

Martin Iturbide

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Re: Translating ArcaOS to local languages
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2018, 04:52:26 pm »
Hi.

About the Spanish translation of ArcaOS, Alfred is doing a great job and he has more experience using OS/2 in Spanish. I'm just trying to assist him while I also learn the process.

From my side I need to practice a little bit how to create the .inf files so I can review the .ipf translation on the help file.

There are things that I dislike about the translation, but that is because of the age of the platform and that some components has different ways to get translated than others.

One thing is the code page. I'm using 850 for Spanish and I know it works fine, but it is old. I know the modern standard is Unicode but I don't know all the effort it can be to support Unicode on the OS/2 platform for translations. Maybe someone with more experience can explain me that or give their personal opinion.

The other thing is that each component has a different way to be translated, which is logical because some components were made by different developers and maybe with different standards. I would like to hear opinions and maybe see some samples of which is a program that made a good standard for translations. Which do you think is a good reference app that supports translations ?

Regards

 
Martin Iturbide
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Andreas Schnellbacher

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Re: Translating ArcaOS to local languages
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2018, 08:10:09 pm »
From my side I need to practice a little bit how to create the .inf files so I can review the .ipf translation on the help file.
The IPF compiler ipfc.exe plus its files have to be installed. Therefore install any toolkit (best is the last). The IPF language is described in book\ipfref.inf.

I don't like editing IPF directly, as Alex does it. I always use a preprocessor that eases the work for me extremely. Others might have other opinions. As the co-author of HyperText/2 and the author of the compiler back from IPF to HTEXT, I always use that tool for .INF or .HLP file creation.

There are things that I dislike about the translation, but that is because of the age of the platform and that some components has different ways to get translated than others.
BTW: I don't like that the installer has repeated text strings, that have to be maintained separately, also for translation. Joachim finally had reduced that enormously in the last eCS, but now the same error was made again.

One thing is the code page. I'm using 850 for Spanish and I know it works fine, but it is old. I know the modern standard is Unicode but I don't know all the effort it can be to support Unicode on the OS/2 platform for translations. Maybe someone with more experience can explain me that or give their personal opinion.
Most OS/2 apps, especially system apps, can't handle Unicode. Newer OS/2 versions have functions for that, but OS/2 will never work with Unicode without a major rewrite of its tools (without having the sources).

The other thing is that each component has a different way to be translated, which is logical because some components were made by different developers and maybe with different standards. I would like to hear opinions and maybe see some samples of which is a program that made a good standard for translations. Which do you think is a good reference app that supports translations ?
That may be interesting for discussion, but most sources are not available. We can be lucky, that .MSG files can be exchanged and resources of the binaries can be replaced later to manipulate a lot (and that the toolkit provides tools for that, together with the external resource decompiler and the external lxlite tool).

There exist numerous tools to ease the translation. Some let one change the language on-the-fly, some use text files, some load parts of it in memory, some use EAs. All these are quite young and as above, can't affect the system tools. The diversity will remain.

My favorite is .TMF (Text Message File), invented by Christian, rewritten by Ulrich. The source remains plain text and to speed searching up, an index is built. Ulrich's variant is good for the system extensions, like XWP, because it's being loaded into memory. For other apps, that memory should better be saved, until it will be used. But I don't like the markup syntax in .TMF files. It's sometimes hard for the human eye to find a string.

For me, the index is a must, to get reasonable performance. The Pascal apps like NewView use also text files, but without an index, at least not a permanent one. There exists also a tool from Russia that uses zipped text files, probably using a similar method.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 08:18:57 pm by Andreas Schnellbacher »