Author Topic: A comprehensive guide to Odin available?  (Read 1787 times)

Tuure Linden

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A comprehensive guide to Odin available?
« on: August 24, 2019, 06:27:59 pm »
I'm starting to use ArcaOS more and more and might even buy more licenses because it would be more convinient to be able to have more then two bootable installations running. However the os still is lacking a alot of software and I have been wondering if Odin would be one solution. Unfortunately the documentation attached kind of sucks. I would need a straight forward guide how to actually install 32 bit Windows software. And above all: a list of working software would be nice. When it comes to Linux there is Wine Application database which has two functions: it tells us users whichs software is compatible and what steps are needed to install it.

When searching the forum a found an older topic about Microsoft Office but not much else. Do you usually use Odin and if you do which software is compatible? And are there any better instructions than Odin's own User's manual? Using wine is quite easy: you rune command "wine windows32program.exe" but I wasn't even able to find out who one does that with odin. "odin", "odininst" and "odinapp" are all unkown commands when typed in the command prompt.

Dave Yeo

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Re: A comprehensive guide to Odin available?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2019, 07:56:23 pm »
To run Win32 apps,
Code: [Select]
pe win32app.exe
or
Code: [Select]
pec win32consoleapp.exe
Unluckily Odin hasn't been particular maintained for a long time and is missing a lot of the newer WIN API so not many newer WIN32 programs will run.

Tuure Linden

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Re: A comprehensive guide to Odin available?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2019, 08:20:07 pm »
Is there a list of which older win32 applications run under Odin?

ivan

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Re: A comprehensive guide to Odin available?
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2019, 11:05:23 pm »
I don't remember ever seeing any type of manual for Oden but it is very simple to make a program object (see attachment) and if the program doesn't work it will generally tell you what is missing.

BTW, the full 'Parameters' line in the example is:   "d:\odin\program files\irfanview\i_view32.exe"  Note the quote marks - they are necessary.

Doug Clark

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Re: A comprehensive guide to Odin available?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2019, 01:23:49 am »
I believe ArcaOS creates an ODIN folder in the Programs folder on the Desktop. That folder contains the user manual - such as it is.

I have attached the user manual and readme to this post.

Part of the problem with running Win32 programs in ODIN is getting them installed. ODIN only runs Win32 code and many of the early Win32 programs used installers that were 16 bit or mixed 16 bit and 32 bit. There is information about on overcoming those issues for some installers. Otherwise you have to manually install the program

The other issue appears to be around printing. It appears that ODIN doesn't handle printing very well, and some programs that rely on printing (word processors, report writers, etc.) have issues. Although if Microsoft Office runs then that may not be an issue.

Having said that I have created a Win32 program in Delph4 which runs in ODIN (it does no printing).

André Heldoorn

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Re: A comprehensive guide to Odin available?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2019, 10:54:32 am »
When searching the forum a found an older topic about Microsoft Office but not much else. Do you usually use Odin
For 8.3 FAT file names, i.e. without a last X, v4.3 with an update to support most of a newer Word *.DOC file format (WRD97CNV.EXE) can be a 16-bit genuine Microsoft Office-option, without Odin. A default memory setting of e.g. Excel in DATABASE.TXT may be a little bit outdated, if you really have to work with it.

André Heldoorn

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Re: A comprehensive guide to Odin available?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2019, 11:41:51 am »
Is there a list of which older win32 applications run under Odin?

Probably not. At the moment and in general, excluding hardware-related software, I'd only care about Firefox 87.0.4, Acrobat Reader 42, Office 201x, Flash 33, and perhaps a rare Java 8-based route app. Typically the problem will be reversed: use OS/2 when possible, and Windows when you have to. There's probably no demand for an OS which can somehow execute 80% of your 32-bit software and 0% of your 64-bit software, so compiling a catalogue for a few users has no point. I hardly have any important 16-bit or 32-bit Windows software, so I hardly have Win32-apps I'd wish were available for OS/2.

Most of the time my copy of Windows will be rather busy with updates, and I certainly don't want support for that. Microsoft tends to scan your disks quite frequently, one of their enforced harddisk-torture commercial coffee breaks, which (a.o.) indicates that it's even hard for Microsoft to keep up with new versions or new software, and so on.

For a small community it'll be more important to compile a list of (all) (legacy) software which works fine with ArcaOS, including DOS sound and old Windows apps, to attract new users. As opposed to telling 'em to download and install DOSBox for Windows, for example.

Joop

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Re: A comprehensive guide to Odin available?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2019, 12:07:27 pm »
use OS/2 when possible, and Windows when you have to.
I agree with that, use an OS when its not possible to run the program otherwise.

I hardly have any important 16-bit or 32-bit Windows software, so I hardly have Win32-apps I'd wish were available for OS/2.
Very personal. A lot of fine software written for DOS or Win16 has no update in today's systems. I still have lots of CD's with software for DOS or Windows 3.1. If you go for importance, every office thing in Windows 10 can go to the trashcan. Your shifting space from one place to another. Furthermore, its important to have DOS and Windows 3.1 available because lots of data can't be read or saved anymore with the more "modern" versions of programs. As example, RTF and CSV is not so universal as people tend to think.

For a small community it'll be more important to compile a list of (all) (legacy) software which works fine with ArcaOS, including DOS sound and old Windows apps, to attract new users. As opposed to telling 'em to download and install DOSBox for Windows, for example.
You only need DOSBox for programs who want the whole machine and there can be only one captain on the ship and this is OS/2, eCS or ArcaOS.

Tuure Linden

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Re: A comprehensive guide to Odin available?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2019, 12:36:36 pm »
It's also possible to install Windows 95 under dosbox. At least that's the case with the Linux version of dosbox. Have someone tried it with the OS/2 version?

But personally when it comes to DOS and Windows 3,1 I would rather use the environment that comes with the os rather than dosbox. One of the most important reasons to use OS/2 is the native support for old DOS and Windows 3,1 software.

I have lots of old software I like to run because newer versions aren't always better. The problem is that you aren't able to buy licenses for the older versions anymore. It's quite rare to be able to buy old software from the vendor and eBay and other similar sites are the only alternative. Many of the former software companies don't even exist anymore.

André Heldoorn

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Re: A comprehensive guide to Odin available?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2019, 02:40:29 pm »
A default memory setting of e.g. Excel in DATABASE.TXT may be a little bit outdated, if you really have to work with it.

That'll be the DPMI_MEMORY_LIMIT. In the days of 4 GiB of installed RAM instead of 4 MiB you can safely change Exces' setting 4 to e.g. 8.

André Heldoorn

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Re: A comprehensive guide to Odin available?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2019, 02:42:47 pm »
I have lots of old software I like to run because newer versions aren't always better.

The problem is that you aren't able to buy licenses for the older versions anymore.

BTW, in a way DATABASE.TXT is a list of somehow supported 16-bit Win 3.x apps which were popular or "important" in the early 90s.

For some apps cracker-generated codes of the 90s are generally available online. So in theory the office can e.g. buy a modern WinZip code, install ye olde 16-bit WinZip v6.3 , try the bought code, and use a hack when WinZip 6.3 doesn't accept the modern code.

Neil Waldhauer

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Re: A comprehensive guide to Odin available?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2019, 04:33:38 pm »
I don't run Odin intentionally, but I think it's involved with some of our ports. If I really need a Windows program, I run it under Windows. I can run the current Microsoft Office in OS/2 under Firefox. Actually, I run it that way under Windows, too. Looking at Microsoft's current direction, I expect to use their cloud products more in the future.

That makes me wonder if any new Windows programs are being written? Is Windows now in maintenance mode?
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: A comprehensive guide to Odin available?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2019, 05:01:16 pm »
Hi

I tried to copy some of the information I was able to find from the Odin database here.

Help is always welcome to improve the list of working applications, not matter how old or legacy the Win32 app may be.

Regards
Martin Iturbide
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: A comprehensive guide to Odin available?
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2019, 05:04:28 pm »
Hi

.... However the os still is lacking a alot of software and I have been wondering if Odin would be one solution...

I was wondering which software specifically would you like to run on ArcaOS, maybe we can give some alternative suggestions, or even try it with Odin to give a hand.

Regards
Martin Iturbide
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Tuure Linden

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Re: A comprehensive guide to Odin available?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2019, 07:34:33 pm »
I have some games that won't run on a modern Windows pc. And then there are some specific multimedia CD-ROM's from the late 90s and early 2000s, for example, one about all the Finnish political leaders. It would be fun to be able to run those. But there is nothing indispensable. I'm able to use the Microsoft Office 365 environment with Firefox among other cloud applications I need at work. It seems that it's quite indifferent which operating system I run these days as long as it connects to Internet and has a browser modern enough.

Like Neil said, the future might be in cloud computing. There are some benefits to that but also disbenefits. For example, I am quite happy to be able to use a dictionary application I bought 20 years ago instead of Google translator. The Finnish "Euro Tranlator 3,1" runs perfectly under WinOS/2 and even supports Russian language.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 07:37:58 pm by Tuure Linden »