OS/2, eCS & ArcaOS - Technical > Setup & Installation

Is eComStation DEAD?

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Andi B.:

--- Quote ---I only wonder why none of the developers - wich are in contact with Mensys or who ever - do still keep quit. May be they are forced to as one of the parts of their contracts.
--- End quote ---
A simple answer maybe they do not have the time/do not want to wast their time in reading and answering all these forums/groups. But of course I can't speak for them.

Another thought I want to add here in the thread - IMHO the OS/2 - eCS community is special compared to others in the way what they expect from there system/apps. An average Linux guy usually tries things out, plays with software, read numerous hours in the net about problems he encounters and sometimes even start to improve the sources. An average OS/2 - eCS guy expects perfect software focused on the task he needs to be done. Without problems, without incompatibilities even to his own brewed centuries old messy hacked scripts ;)

The average eCS guy don't even tell the maintainer about bugs at least not when it comes to fill a ticket and trying to nail it down to reproducibly test case. Yes I know we have some prominent exceptions to this this rule here.

So IMHO it does not make sense to have 50% WPS replacement. You need 99.999%. 99.9% is way to less for being acceptable to the average eCS user. At least that's what I see with the here in this thread mentioned 4os2  ;)

Doug Bissett:

--- Quote ---It is obvious to me that nothing will change nor will I get a serious information from Mensys / Xeu.com.
--- End quote ---

Unfortunately, that seems to be a result of trying to do a project on a "shoe string" budget. You, and the rest of us, don't get much information, because they aren't even sure about what is going on. They have also learned, finally, that it is best to shut up, until there is some concrete news to tell. Too many times their announcements have failed to materialize. Then, they seem to have ONE guy who does most of the English communication, and he was sick for a while (I hope he is not sick again, we never heard about that, until after the fact).


--- Quote ---And this is to fit the needs of industrial clients and not waste time with community things.
--- End quote ---

The "industrial" clients are the ones who have been keeping it going. Without them, there would be far less money to work with, and that would mean far less paid development, which would mean that the platform would become unusable even faster. It has always been that way.


--- Quote ---The average eCS guy don't even tell the maintainer about bugs at least not when it comes to fill a ticket and trying to nail it down to reproducibly test case.
--- End quote ---

This is true, but it also works the other way around. Some of the maintainers seem to expect that only those who can fully debug a problem should have the right to report problems, and they can get very nasty when somebody attempts to report a problem, without the proper supporting documentation (which they usually have no idea about, and maintainers don't want to tell).


--- Quote ---So IMHO it does not make sense to have 50% WPS replacement. You need 99.999%. 99.9% is way to less for being acceptable to the average eCS user.
--- End quote ---

Actually, it would need to be about 110%, to keep OS/2 users happy. OS/2 started out as an OS that was supposed to be "perfect" (as all the rest claimed). Overall, when IBM was developing, and maintaining, it, it was about as good as it got, and users came to expect that it would be near to "perfect", and if there was a problem, somebody else would report it, and the next fix pack would fix it. The only thing that has changed, is that IBM has been replaced by a dozen, or so, freelance programmers, who are often working without source code, to try to keep it going, never mind make it "perfect". The users still haven't figured out that those programmers need all the help they can get, and part of that is that users need to learn how to properly report problems, and then do the report themselves, because it seems that others aren't going to do it. As noted above, maintainers need to be more user friendly, and patiently explain to a user what they need to know, and how to collect the proper data for a problem report (instructions should be part of the distributed package, and some actually do that). True, that takes away from the time that they are far too short of, but after a while, (some) users will start to catch on, and better reports will be available.

Perhaps that is part of the answer. Before even thinking about cloning any part of OS/2, the users need to have a course in how to properly report problems, and, it would be good to have a group of users, who do have some idea, screen those problem reports, to be sure that they have the information that is required, before it goes to the maintainers. This group could also create instructions, and tools, to be placed in the packages.

jdeb:

--- Quote from: Sigurd Fastenrath on February 01, 2014, 10:36:09 am ---My Software subscription did expire these days. Before I got to prolongue it I am wondering if this is a good idea or not. Spending more Money or looking for an alternative like the - free of Charge - Linux Mint.
--- End quote ---

I think you would like Slackware better Sigurd, with all your technical ability. Mint is super easy but Slackware is rock solid stable. In my opinion, the most stable release of Mint is Mint Debian "Rolling Release" followed by Mint 13 Maya (LTS).

Neil Waldhauer:
I don't think it's dead. The new ACPI and driver fixes in eCS 2.2 beta 2 allow easy installation on machines that were out of reach a year ago. This beta is only a few weeks old, and there are a few large pieces to add before the next beta.

Not many people work on eCS business, so they likely have to choose between talking about working, and actually working. I expect we'll find out soon enough how things will go with eCS.

Sigurd Fastenrath:

--- Quote from: Neil Waldhauer on February 04, 2014, 12:32:31 am ---I don't think it's dead. The new ACPI and driver fixes in eCS 2.2 beta 2 allow easy installation on machines that were out of reach a year ago. This beta is only a few weeks old, and there are a few large pieces to add before the next beta.

--- End quote ---

Hi Neil,

yes, the latest USB and ACPI has been a good progress, but meanwhile the hardware platform did move forward as well. So we do have hardware that was not supported a year or more ago but actual hardware is not supported on a reliable way:

- UEFI is a show stopper for a lot of modern hardware
- WLAN - a key feature - is not supported
- Sound is not working on most of modern hardware wich has an HDMI output as well, because there are two soundhardwares then that can not (as far as my experience lead me to) be handeld by UNIAUD
- USB 3.0 is not at hand (Laptops with USB 2.0 stopped to be produced for some time now; some have the possibility to use 3.0 as 2.0 (like my X230t); even most of the now common mainboards miss USB 2.0 support)
- do not want to mention all the other things like Bluetooth, Firewire, Graphic support, outdated LAN support (thanks to Paul there might be some movement here)
- Memory hole at 512 MB and and and

-> therefore for serious, reliable work one have to cut Laptops, Tablets and all portable devices. Whats left are Desktop PCs.

I try to build a maximum warp PC for some time now. As I found a good combination (ASRock 990FX Extreme4 Mainboard, AMD FX 8 core CPU, CMedia 8738 Soundcard and Nvidia 6600 PCie Grafic card) even this has so many limitations with eCS.

And on the other hand - there would be almost NO information about eCs on modern hardware if there would not be a handfull users from the community wich report from time to time.

And again - what is really a joke to read (not adressed to you!) is the argument "The 'developers' - wich is wrong - I mean the Distributor! (misleading post of mine, sorry!)  have to work instead of reading forum news/questions" - that's really something I can not believe being argumented with! It brings tears in my eyes (   :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(  )    ::)

I do KNOW that the ones in charge are reading the forums and taking profit from the reports and tips and tricks on hardware given here - but they do not have 2 minutes to answer - Come on - on wich planet do we live??

I.e. look at the memory hole at 512 MB - for me I mentioned it first while playing around with the Samsung Series 7 Slate in 2011/2012. I do know from answers of "Someone" from that time that this was mostly new for them. I then "presented" one possible solution: using OS4Loader. And Yes, I got a message then that they are working on a solution. Some months later the developer of OS4 Loader mentioned, that someone tried to download his sources.....

I.e. 2: In 2009 I tried to install eCS next to Windows 7. The messages from "some" I got then has been: "This is impossible with OS/2 Bootmanager". As it turned out to be possible as I proofed it (and others as well) I got some new messages from there. Oh man.....

I.e. 3: eCs 2 beta 5 : I was able to test it as one of the first persons - and discovered, that it destroyed my HDD layout. Same goes later on, a beta was released with missing mouse support and so on and so on. That does not look like being tested "on more than 90 PC inside Mensys" - except this PCs are dated till 2002..; the eCs 2.2 beta 4 with that painfull ecs.ru "Modern ui" that disabled i.e. the Drive letters.....

I do not want to show how "Glorious and great I am" - this are just facts to demonstrate why I have so much trust in the "distributors team" there. Just look at ACPI - as long at is has been developed by ecs.ru this was a PITA - it simply did work only on a handfull PC - and did i.e. kill one of my X200t graphic chips due to overheat.

It just changed when (only to mention a few) David, Steven, Lars, Silvan, Herwig, Wim - and of course you, Neil, Doug and others stepped in. Unfortunately they have not enough man power and even if working very hard can not catch up with the hardware demands. We are not talking about a "100% OS/2 or eCS" - it would be nice to have rudimental support. I do have very much respect for their work!!! And I would like to thank them again!!

But, when it comes to Mensys or Xeu.com or whatever - with their policy those are ruining everything the others try to keep alive.
And without the help and testing and reporting of the community - it would have stopped some years before.

P.S: I removed colours and bold.

It is important for me to divide between the "active developers" (wich are making a very very good work!!) and Mensys/xeu.com as the "Organizer/Distributor" (wich in my opinion do make a very bad job).




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