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Messages - Doug Clark

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1
Hardware / Re: SNAP Driver Source
« on: August 24, 2025, 05:09:25 pm »
Quote
Making an educated guess based on what is written it means you can for example use PCI cards that still have legacy support. Such as an old video card.

Generally speaking, yes.  You have to use an adapter to plug the PCI card into the PCIe slot because of electrical and physical differences - the two use different voltages for example. And some adapters do not work - but the adapter from Startech does.  You can even plug multiple PCI cards into PCIe slots in the same motherboard - each with an adapter.  I currently have an Intel PCI network adapter and a QualTech multiport serial card plugged in one of my machines; the Intel network card because it is MUCH faster with netbios than the Realtek chip/driver on the motherboard.  This allows you to find and use hardware that matches older OS/2 specific drivers.

As for video cards: you could use an old PCI video card with an adapter but you really don't need to.  PCIe was becoming a thing right at the end of SNAP's development and you can find lots of PCIe video cards that work with SNAP.  There will be a presentation on this at Warpstock US in November.

Quote
As I typed before as time moves on supporting CSM for old operating systems makes less and less sense
Unfortunately this is true - and it appears that Intel already made that decision for most of its product line.  The good news though is that processors production runs are much longer than they used to be. The AMD Ryzen 5 5600X that I am currently using was released in November 2020 and is still for sale at Microcenter (as of this morning) now almost 5 years later - along with motherboards that support the processor.  The end of CSM is coming, but we have a few years before it vanishes - at least on the AMD side.

2
Hardware / Re: SNAP Driver Source
« on: August 21, 2025, 07:07:58 am »
Quote
I can not find any references to other BIOS settings related to CSM support in this specific case that indicates you can still BOOT a CSM OS.
You see next to the BIOS having CSM support you must have drivers that support the new hardware.

I am not sure what they mean there - or where it says it only supports 64 bit operating systems.
The manuals don't give very much information on CSM  - or in some cases any information at all.

With my AM4 socket MSI motherboard the way you choose whether to boot UEFI or CSM mode is through the BIOS boot menu - I suspect it is the same with AM5 socket boards.   Basically each media that is attached when the machine turns on is listed twice: once with a UEFI tag and again without the UEFI tag.  If you pick the media with the UEFI tag you boot in UEFI mode, otherwise you boot in CSM mode.  This isn't described in the manual.  With the other two manufacturers I had to look on forums where people posted about problems booting CSM or UEFI to find out that the board supported CSM.

With the choices between UEFI and CSM, MBR verses GPT, and how UEFI vs CSM affects the capabilities of both SNAP and Panorama, along with DOS and/or Win-OS/2,  setting up a system is now a very complex undertaking.

3
Hardware / Re: SNAP Driver Source
« on: August 20, 2025, 06:00:07 pm »
Roderick,

That appears to be true for Intel CPU based motherboards, but does not appear to be true for AMD CPU based motherboards - at least for today.

I went to Microcenter.com (a big, national, US computer retailer/superstore) and searched for AM5 socket motherboards.  AM5 is the latest AMD socket for its processors.  AMD has announced it will support AM5 socket until 2027.  I took the first 3 motherboards from different manufacturers and checked if they had CSM - all three did.  Those motherboards are MSI MAG X870E Tomahawk Wifi, ASUS B650A ROG Strix, and Gigabyte X870E AORUS Elite.

I have no idea about that state of CSM support in laptops.

4
Hardware / Re: SNAP Driver Source
« on: August 18, 2025, 07:06:11 pm »
Rodrick,

I am attaching a screen shot of a seamless win-os/2 application at 3840x1080, and a pic of a full-screen win-os/2 session running at 3840x1080, both using SNAP.

As for GRADD and how SNAP and Win-OS/2 works - and for that fact BIOS/CSM  - I am no expert.  I'm just Ken (and I am not even blond.)

The limitation for SNAP seems to be in the vertical direction rather than the horizontal direction.  I am guessing this is due to the fact that support for new chipsets ended before DisplayPort became common and so we are bound by the display resolution limitations of DVI. 

The graphical performance of seamless, and full-screen Win-os/2 sessions, seems to be fine.  The card I am using (Radeon X600) is a first generation PCIe but it seems to have more than enough performance for OS/2.  I am not counting frame rates or running games - I am judging by how fast text scrolls, how responsive window dragging is, and how many movies I am play on VLC at the same time (it is at least 4 - the limitations appear to be VLC related rather than graphics performance)

As for CSM/BIOS/CPU - once again I'm just Ken.  There are lots of links about Intel and CSM - including this one

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/content-details/630266/removal-of-legacy-boot-support-for-intel-platforms-technical-advisory.html

A couple of weeks ago I was wondering the same question as you asked - is it the CPU or the BIOS/motherboard that determines CSM support - so I looked at some new Intel based motherboards from MSI, Gigibyte and ASUS to see if the new boards have CSM support.  I could not find any mention of CSM in the manuals for the motherboards, or listed on their web sites.  This of course is not conclusive, either for the BIOS verses CPU question or for whether CSM is now gone from Intel based motherboards. 

But if CSM is now discontinued for Intel based systems it might drive some OS/2 users to AMD based systems - especially those who need DOS/Windows support and/or are using older hardware that really requires BIOS support - such as some graphics tablets, etc.  Right now it appears that we need CSM for Panorama to access the full range of color depth and/or resolutions that are available on modern monitors/video cards.


5
Virtualization / Re: Win-OS/2 - Open vbesvga.drv video driver
« on: August 16, 2025, 05:29:26 am »
Martin,

I tried the vbesvga.drv driver on a bare metal machine booting CSM (BIOS).  It works in Win-OS/2 full screen and DOS full screen; the mouse pointer seems slightly less jumpy than when running "normal" Win-OS/2 full screen session.  Neither the VBESVGA.DRV nor the "normal" driver will run seamless Win-OS/2 or seamless DOS sessions.

6
Hardware / Re: SNAP Driver Source
« on: August 15, 2025, 09:23:09 pm »
The big benefit of SNAP for me is that currently SNAP is the only way (that I know of) of getting Win-OS/2 to reliably work on a screen size larger than 1920x1080. Which in my case is SNAP with a dual monitor setup running 3840x1080  (I don't have two monitors that will display larger than 1920x1080.  I do have a single 4k monitor).

Because of AndiB's post on 4k screen sizes awhile back, I purchased a Sapphire pulse RX 550 video card (from England - the shipping was more than the card)  to see if I could get it to work on my Ryzen.  What I found (on the Ryzen with RX550 video card and virtual address limit = 2048) was:

1) you have to boot as CSM in order to set colors to something less than 16M.  64K colors seems to work well. 16M colors not so good.
(first screen shot - the card name shows up as LEXA for some reason).  Win-OS/2 will not work

2) If you boot as UEFI you can only use 16M colors - there is no other color option and I did not get custom resolutions to work.  I did not try messing with virtual address limit

3)  with UEFI boot  (and 16M colors) you can get Win-OS/2 to work - but not very well.
On the second screen shot you can see the screen not getting updated correctly - noticeable for example below the "Initializing" text in the grey window at the lower left of the
Visual Builder screen.

4)  There are some Win-OS/2 apps, like Paint Brush, that won't work correctly at 16M colors, even with SNAP.

5) The type of video "connection" used makes a difference.  Even though the RX550 video card supports both HDMI and DisplayPort, and my monitor supports both connections, 4k will only work on with a DisplayPort connection.  I also tried hooking up a 4K TV via HDMI and it will not display 4K for Panorama even though the TV and video card say they support HDMI at 60 HZ.  This was also true when testing with an Intel i5 8600 with integrated UHD graphics 630, which also supports HDMI, DisplayPort and VGA.

6) for the Intel (virtual address limit = 1536)  I had the same issue of needing to boot CSM in order to set the colors at something other the 16M, and the resolution at something other than 640x480.
When booting CSM WIn-OS/2 will not work in seamless mode, but will work in full screen. OS/2 seemed to work correctly - although I didn't do extensive testing.
(screen shot 3)

When booting the Intel in UEFI - at 16M colors and 640x480 (the only color and resolution choice) - Win-OS/2 would work in seamless mode and full screen.

There are some points to remember:

The older Radeon video cards that will work with SNAP are probably not going to be GOP enabled - meaning they won't work unless CSM is on, and the AOS installer will not work with them.  They will work fine once AOS is installed and with CSM support turned on.

Intel has removed CSM support from most of its processors by now.  AMD is removing CSM support from its graphics video cards starting at the Radeon 9000, but appears to be keeping CSM for its processors, at least at this point.

I was thinking of doing this a presentation at Warpstock Little Rock if you guys think anyone would be interested.

7
Programming / Re: Powerbasic for OS/2
« on: July 30, 2025, 06:13:38 am »
In addition to the ones listed on os2site.com, CA-Realizer was a basic interpreter and development package released for OS/2 and Windows, but it is hard to find. You might find one on ebay.

8
Lewis has a T43 that he has installed a SSD in so it can be done.  BUT - if you consider the price of an SSD for that machine, and compare that price to a later model  Lenovo, such as a T530 - you can get an entire used T530 for less than you can get a PATA - SSD.  I just checked ebay and there is a 15" T530 for $50 or best offer.  It doesn't have a HDD but you can get a new 1 TB SATA SSD for $70 - both together are less that what you would probably pay for the PATA-SSD.

Everything except wireless on the T530 works with AOS 5.1, including seamless WIN-OS/2.  For wireless you have to use one of those adapters that plugs into the wired network socket.  The boot up time on the T530 is actually faster than the resume time on the T43p. As for which keyboard is better - I like the T530 better but I know others like the T43 keyboard better.  The T530 keyboard can be replaced with a lighted keyboard - mine cost about $25 - I don't think there is a lighted keyboard for the T43.

So while the T43 is a very nice machine, you can probably get a much later, better performing Lenovo laptop for less money than upgrading the T43 hard drive.  Just a thought.


9
Rich,

Quote
When you drop a datafile on a program object, the pgm object does *not* open the file. Instead, the datafiles's wpDroppedOnObject() method is called, advising that it was just dropped on the pgm object. The datafile then queries the pgm object for its PROGDETAILS structure which contains the particulars for that program. Using this info, the datafile runs the program itself. And here lies the problem...

Thanks for that explanation.  I knew that wpOpen() in the program object wasn't getting called when a file was dropped, but I didn't know what was getting called and how the program was executed .  Is wpOpen() called in the datafile object when it is double-clicked and it then runs the program by querying PROGDETAILS the same way?

I am afraid that I probably am causing the problem because I am overriding wpQueryProgDetails() in the program object and modifying the contents of PROGDETAILS - which it appears that DTProgram is picking up on a drag/drop and hence the issue.

I could add the "standard" environment  to PROGDETAILS since I am modifying some of the contents anyway.  And that may be the best solution.  But I am a little worried about a memory overrun.  Most of the time when wpQueryProgDetails() is called it is called twice: the first time with a NULL pointer for returning the contents of the PROGDETAILS in order to get the needed size for allocating the memory to hold the PROGDETAILS and the second time with a pointer to the memory allocated to hold the PROGDETAILS with the pointer hopefully the correct size.  But I have noticed that sometimes it is only called once, with an "assumed large enough" size allocated for holding PROGDETAILS,  (If I am remembering correctly the size I saw was 1024)   If I add in the standard environment it could exceed that "assumed large enough" size.

I saw that "only call once with an assumed large enough size" behavior on a machine that was running eWorkplace, but I don't know if that is a eWorkplace particular behavior or something else that was installed on that machine that was calling  wpQueryProgDetails().

Thanks for the help.


10
It appears to me that an empty environment is passed to the program started when a file is dropped on a WPS program object.

Double clicking the WPProgram object doesn't do this, and double-clicking on a file associated with the program object also doesn't do this. - meaning the full environment is passed in both situations.   It appears to happen only when dropping a file on an WPProgram object.

Has anyone else experienced this issue?  Meaning is this a bug, or is there a reason for this that I am unaware of?

11
Networking / Re: Sharing WSeB Server drives to Win 10/11 Clients
« on: April 10, 2025, 06:15:18 pm »
Chris,

I am running WSeB on bare metal - an HP Elitedesk 800 mini that consumes about 12 watts at the desktop.

That system is an AOS 5.1 install minus the networking, with the networking from WSeB installed on top of that.

I am running the Samba 3.6.25 server for connections from earlier Macs, Win7, Win10, and connect OS/2 and WinXP via Netbuei to the WSeB.  I have not been able to get any version of Samba server greater than 3.6.25 running correctly. I run a domain for WSeB and a different domain for samba.  Previously I had WSeB running on top of ECS and used the same domain name for both samba and WSeB, but to do that you have to connect in a special sequence or you cannot connect to both at the same time: either samba first or WSeB first, I don't remember which.  With different domain names you can connect to both at the same time without worrying about connecting in the correct sequence.

In order to connect the Win10 machine I had to add the line
    max protocol = SMB2
to the samba.conf  file on the samba server.

I have not been able to get any of the family's latest Macs to connect to this setup but the older Macs connect fine.

With the WSeB on AOS 5.1 I cannot get the samba configuration to work when adding a user.  So I use the WSeB on ECS machine to make a configuration and transfer that the WSeB on AOS machine.  You probably wont have that issue if you are running a "pure" WSeB install.

The other issue I have found with samba is it gets very unhappy when transferring a very large set (number of) of files - like for instance backing up the entire C drive by copying the individual files over.  It works fine if those same files are zipped into one large file and that large file is copied across the network.  This is not an issue with WSeB.

12
Programming / Re: An XWorkplace CPU Temperature Widget for AMD CPUs
« on: March 31, 2025, 05:24:37 am »
Lars,

I tried your new version and it doesn't work on my processor.  Thank you for trying.

The cpu temperature widget contained in standard xcenter monitor.dll also doesn't work.  I think I saw somewhere that ACPI on this machine does not report temperature in the proper way - and my memory was I saw that in the acpid log file - but I turned logging back on and now can't find that message.  So maybe I am mis-remembering this.

This is only a 6 core processor, with the factory cooler for the processor, in a desktop case with good ventilation.  I am not too worried about excessive processor temperatures.  I don't compile large projects, like Dave or Jack.  I have a wattage meter on the machine and the highest consumption spike I have seen is 120 watts - and that is during bootup.

Thanks again Lars for your work on this, and all the other projects you have done for OS/2.

13
Programming / Re: An XWorkplace CPU Temperature Widget for AMD CPUs
« on: March 29, 2025, 05:45:52 pm »
Lars,

there is no log file for xwplug.log - in c:\var\log\xwplug.log
or in e:\var\log\

my unixroot is set to e:

I am running a Ryzen 5 5600x

I should add that cputemp runs with the following output:

AMD CPU: Family:0x19, Model:0x01, Local APIC:0x01
MMIO Configuration Base Address:0x00000000F0000000
Temperature core 0 (0x00000000):0.00 °C

So maybe the widget wouldn't show the temperature, based on the above output, even it it was installed in xCenter

14
Programming / Re: An XWorkplace CPU Temperature Widget for AMD CPUs
« on: March 29, 2025, 12:11:51 am »
Lars,

I downloaded and ran cputemp.wpi and it doesn't show up in the "create a new widget" popup menu.  cputamd.dll and cputamd.sys are in
c:\sys\apps\xwps\plugins\xcenter 

The cputamd.dll also doesn't show up on the "Classes" page on the xcenter properties

Isn't xCenter supposed to pick up all the widget DLLs that are in c:\sys\apps\xwps\plugins\xcenter ?

Thanks

Doug

15
Programming / Re: stopping cpus
« on: March 02, 2025, 06:47:02 am »
Thanks again guys - Tom, Dave, Darius.

When running ACPISTAT my Ryzen 5/MSI motherboard shows no thermal information available, while the Intel i5 8th gen/HP machine does shows thermal information.  The Ryzen also doesn't support throttling or performance control; the i5 supports throttling.

I am curious Darius what ACPISTAT shows on your Ryzen.




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