Install - screen goes blank when pmshell starts

[Doug Clark]

Trying to install on a MSI Pro B550-VC motherboard with a Ryzen 5 5600X and Radeon X600 video card.  The Ryzen 5600x processor has no graphics built into the CPU.   CSM is turned on in the bios.

I created a USB stick for the install.  I get the AOS boot menu where it asks if I want to boot from the hard drive or Install/Maintain AOS.  I pick install/maintain.  The AOS logo shows up for a while and then the screen goes blank.

Tried setting AOS install/boot option to turn on showing the loading of drivers (e.g. Alt-F2)  The screen goes blank right after it says PMSHELL.

As a note:  when I turned on the computer for the very first time the screen was blank for a long time (a couple of minutes) and then I got a message to the effect that video was not UEFI compatible and was switching to CSM.

Anyone got any ideas?

[Dave Yeo]

Try a legacy install. As the message says, the X600 is too old for UEFI.

[Doug Clark]

Unfortunately there is no "legacy" option available in the bios - only CSM.  And with CSM turned on the video displays - at least enough to get the first install menu and logo.

It would be pretty easy for me to buy a different video card to get through the installation, if that would solve the problem.  And providing that I could then install SNAP and the Radeon X600 after I got AOS v 5.1 installed.

Does SNAP work with UEFI? 

[Dave Yeo]

SNAP works with UEFI after installation, so install with Panorama and then run setup.cmd from the ISO's SNAP directory. How well it will work with a modern computer and X600 card is unknown, at least to me.
CSM is legacy, if it is failing in CSM mode, I'd suspect that there is something missing from the ancient card that modern systems require.
If buying a card, try to get an ATI as they're a lot friendlier, things like custom resolutions.
One other idea, can you fiddle with the PCI settings in the BIOS? Mine allows changing it from X3 to X2 or X1 or similar, slowing it down might be a workaround.

[Doug Clark]

Thanks Dave for the suggestions.  I did poke around in the bios and saw some settings for pcie - like x1, etc.  But I thought X1, X4, X16 signified the number of lanes or width of the pci "bus" and the size of the slot on the motherboard - I am probably not saying any of this correctly because I really don't understand much about pci.

But I did try an experiment.  I had installed AOS v 5.1 on another machine whose motherboard died after installation.  I had the same Radeon x600 card installed on that machine and also setup SNAP - which was working - before the motherboard died.  However that install was legacy bios.  I took that ssd and put it in the new machine (which is UEFI with CSM) and it booted to the desktop.

The system icon shows SNAP as the driver, but it says the chip type is VESA VBE 2.0   The available resolutions on the WPS system/screen object are the same as listed in the test  routine (alt-f1 at the first AOS install menu): 640 x 480, 800 x 600, 1024 x 768, and 1280 x 1024.  Since the desktop does come up on this new machine with the Radeon X600 board I assume the machine can talk to the board - at least in some manner.  But obviously the small system that is installed to the Z drive when booting off the AOS DVD/USB stick cannot talk to the x600 board.  Hummm.

[Doug Clark]

more info:

The System Evaluation (Alt-F1) at AOS boot from hard drive or Install/Maintain AOS menu says:

Display native resolution: 1920x1080  not in mode list.  The mode list shows: 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024.

[ivan]

The answer, if you insist on using the old video card, is to try the Panorama VESA driver and if it works use it.  That is what I use on my Ryzen with built in graphics and it pushes 1920x1200 without problems.

[Dave Yeo]

more info:

The System Evaluation (Alt-F1) at AOS boot from hard drive or Install/Maintain AOS menu says:

Display native resolution: 1920x1080  not in mode list.  The mode list shows: 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024.

Well, to have the System Evaluation thing means you are in EUFI mode. And the fact that SNAP is using the VBE driver shows something is not right with your X600, namely not compatible with UEFI makes it look like you have 2 choices, boot and install in legacy mode or use a different newer video board.
When booting from the thumb drive, have you tried using the F11 or F12 (depending on computer) built in boot manager? Perhaps try it and see if you get 2 choices of USB boot, might have to expand the USB drive to see both choices.
As for the PCIe 1X etc, on my computer I'm pretty sure it is speed related. There's been 4 or 5 generations of PCIe, each basically doubling the speed. An old card might work better at the lower speed.
Yours could be different.
Is there access to your MB's manual online?

[Doug Clark]

Dave (and Ivan) - thank you for your help.  I appreciate it.

I have attached the manual for the motherboard.

The message I saw about the video card was: "There is no GOP (Graphics Output Protocol) support detected in this graphics card.  We recommend you use a GOP/UEFI compatible graphics card."  I believe the system then turned on CSM itself.

I think I have two somewhat different issues: 1) the install program stops with a blank screen at PMSHELL, 2) whether SNAP and/or my Radeon X600 will run once the install is complete.

1) Install doesn't run
I THINK the issue with the AOS install is that AOS sets the resolution of the system to a mode that is not supported by the x600 when it switches to graphics mode during the install.  I am basing this on the message from the system diagnostic, and that the x600 card doesn't support GOP.  According to the web GOP replaces VESA as the method to communicate with graphics cards with UEFI.

If that is true, the potential fixes are: 1) buy a graphics card that supports GOP for the install, 2) get AN to add a option to the Boot with Own Values screens where you can specify a resolution for the rest of the install.  The new graphics card will obviously be the fastest solution.

2) Whether the Radeon x600 and/or SNAP will run in UEFI.
Since development on SNAP stopped before UEFI was wide spread I doubt that SNAP used GOP to query the video card.  And I seem to remember that the web said you couldn't use GOP to talk to the card once an OS was booted - although video type data built during the boot process could be accessed from the OS.

So the question is: can SNAP use VESA to talk to the video card installed on a machine using UEFI and CSM?   I would think it would have to in order to run correctly - otherwise how would it know the video resolutions supported by the card and monitor.

And how does the AOS system diagnostics know what the supported video modes are without talking to the card?


I am not opposed to buying new video cards, if that is needed. 

Once again - thanks

[Dave Yeo]

Unluckily, UEFI, or at least the way it works with OS/2, custom resolutions do not work. Newer graphics card or figure out if a legacy boot is possible on your MB. I'll look at your manual.
BTW, add a testlog generic to your ticket.

[Pete]

Hi All

It's possible the x600 is failing - must be fairly old by now  :-)
I had a x600pro a few years back which started to fail, could only be used in VBE mode as switching to accelerated mode resulted in a badly messed up display.

If Doug wants a recommendation for a replacement card the Radeon RX550 works fine with the Panorama driver.


Regards

Pete

[Dave Yeo]

@Pete, it simply is too old for UEFI.
@Doug,
Looks like, on page 43 of the manual, you can set CSM boot mode in the BIOS mode page when first entering the BIOS, it's at the top of the screen. You also will need a MBR partitioned disk,

Code: [Select]

CPU Temperature:
Motherboard Temperature:
VCore:
DDR Voltage:
BIOS Mode: CSM/UEFI
CSM boot mode


[Eugene Tucker]

I have had a couple of those MSI boards and never had anything but trouble with them wehen it came to installing ARCA OS. Personally I settled with a ASUS TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS WIFI. Works great.

[Dave Yeo]

I have had a couple of those MSI boards and never had anything but trouble with them wehen it came to installing ARCA OS. Personally I settled with a ASUS TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS WIFI. Works great.

I notice that the manual says,

Code: [Select]

Incompatible UEFI cases
∙ 32-bit Windows operating system - this motherboard supports only Windows 10
64-bit operating system.
∙ Older graphics card - the system will detect your graphics card. When display a
warning message There is no GOP (Graphics Output protocol) support detected in
this graphics code

The lack of support for 32 bit Windows does not look promising.

[Doug Clark]

Arrrgh...

Yeah that 64 bit comment looks a little scary.

I picked this one based on comments from other users that it worked. 
https://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php?title=MSI_B450M_PRO-VDH_MAX  (plus Ivan has something similar)
although this isn't the exact same board

However I purchased it from MicroCenter (a big computer store in the US) because of its return policy: I have another 7 days before my return period runs out.  So if this is wrong I can switch to something else.

I did pick up another video card (from MicroCenter) in case I need it to get the install working.  But I am holding off opening the package until I hear from AN - cause I don't want to abuse the return policy of the store.  It is a VisionTek Radeon HD5450 that says it can be installed on Windows 10.  ( https://www.amazon.com/VisionTek-Radeon-5450-DVI-I-Graphics/dp/B01CN1F1ZM )

While it doesn't say it supports GOP I figured that by the time Windows 10 came out most motherboards were UEFI - so I am hoping it will work with UEFI.  I was hoping to not have to purchase a video card for the sole purpose of installing AOS, but it won't be the end of the world if that ends up needing to be the case.  (I am working on the theory that once I get AOS installed I can switch to basic VGA, pull out the "install video card", put in the Radeon x600, install SNAP, and be off to the races.)

As for SNAP over Panaroma:  I am currently using a dual head/monitor setup - with a dual head kvm for switching between a Win7 machine and AOS machine (the previous one that died.)  I would like to keep the dual head setup.  Hence my fixation on SNAP.  I would be willing to buy any video card needed to run SNAP to keep the dual head setup.  But I suspect all video cards with chipsets supported by SNAP will be old enough to not have GOP/UEFI support. 

Dave - The test.log for the support ticket.  Could you please explain what you mean? 

And again - thanks all for you help and suggestions.