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IBM To Team With Linux Vendors on 'Microsoft-Free' PCs

Started by BigWarpGuy, 2008.08.11, 19:20:28

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BigWarpGuy

http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=rear%20view%20camera&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wf
"IBM and name-brand Linux operating system distributors Red Hat, Novell and Canonical/Ubuntu have disclosed their intentions to join forces with their hardware partners to create what they are calling "Microsoft-free personal computing choices."  "

I wish this 'Microsoft-free personal computing choices' would include OS/2-eCS.  8)

saborion2

Hey BigWarpGuy,

Re:

Quote from: BigWarpGuy on 2008.08.11, 19:20:28
http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=rear%20view%20camera&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wf
"IBM and name-brand Linux operating system distributors Red Hat, Novell and Canonical/Ubuntu have disclosed their intentions to join forces with their hardware partners to create what they are calling "Microsoft-free personal computing choices."  "

I wish this 'Microsoft-free personal computing choices' would include OS/2-eCS.  8)

I firmly believe that there are certain experiences to be gained from participating in international sports (games) such as those like the Summer Olympics...; and, if there are things to be learned by this IBM collaboration with the Linux Distributions - "Red Hat, Novell and Canonical/Ubuntu..." then our company for one will be only too willing to wait and see if there is anything (are any experiences) that IBM will be "bringing back" to the OS/2 platforms. And, while we are at this, I believe that there are some already established arrangements between Microsoft and the "Linux" distributor - Novell.  8)

Kindest regards,

SAB
   

El Vato

Quote from: BigWarpGuy on 2008.08.11, 19:20:28

[...]"Microsoft-free personal computing choices."  "


BWG...let me just say that I was part of a given event at LinuxWorld 2008 related to your topic, where the the OS/2 issue was raised by an distinguished lady who purportedly had participated in the promotion of OS/2 in bygone years. 

She questioned whether the commitment to the recent release of IBM Lotus product family for the small to medium business (SMB), --like Lotus Connections, Lotus BlueHouse [Software as a Service (SaaS) offering], and Lotus Foundations-- was indeed taken seriously and not happen as the OS/2 infamous example (of dropping support in the heat of the battle).  And the answer by the representative was somewhat as follows:

"Whereas the interface of other operating systems was refined and done by professional graphical user interface (GUI) designers (I recall his paradigm was the usual drivel about the BSD-based operating system GUI tainted by the apple's DRM/proprietary worm), that (GUI) of the OS/2 [with the orange color galore1] looked as if a couple of guys with a six pack had designed it.  And when they where done they stood back, looked at it and said, 'Yea!!!'"

When one observes, first hand, this kind of denigration of the OS/2 by the parent organization marketing representatives, one has to realize that:
Quote from: BigWarpGuy on 2008.08.11, 19:20:28
I wish this 'Microsoft-free personal computing choices' would include OS/2-eCS.  8)

is simply an illusion (if you are thinking about support from those business entities involved in the statement that you quoted).

As is usually the case in herd behaviour, after such statement, there was the giggling/laughing noise of some/many in the audience who wanted to appear gracious to their hosts.

Evidently, the OS/2 beast is chained to a wall and against an approaching spade.

  • The parent organization does not want to open source it --yet it promotes other products at the OS/2 expense.
  • The current sacred cows X or Y (to satisfy those who raise issues) are unable to bring it to meet modern challenges --yet with their outrageous pricing, effectively leave OS/2 out of the reach of those who would have the potential to rejuvenate and hack the internals of the operating system.
  • The two previous issues lead to the next conclusion: those prevent new blood from participating in the OS/2 experience; and those stifle enhancements to the operating system potential enabled by greater participation.

1Evidently, he was referring to Warp 3 and/or Warp 4 Server (based in the Warp 3 kernel).  Possibly this fellow never even tried (or it was convenient to leave out) subsequent OS/2 versions Warp 4 client and/or WSEB --which had a lot of blue embedded in the GUI.

saborion2

Re:

Quote from: El Vato on 2008.08.11, 23:59:41
Quote from: BigWarpGuy on 2008.08.11, 19:20:28

[...]"Microsoft-free personal computing choices."  "


BWG...let me just say that I was part of a given event at LinuxWorld 2008 related to your topic, where the the OS/2 issue was raised by an distinguished lady who purportedly had participated in the promotion of OS/2 in bygone years. 

She questioned whether the commitment to the recent release of IBM Lotus product family for the small to medium business (SMB), --like Lotus Connections, Lotus BlueHouse [Software as a Service (SaaS) offering], and Lotus Foundations-- was indeed taken seriously and not happen as the OS/2 infamous example (of dropping support in the heat of the battle).  And the answer by the representative was somewhat as follows:

"Whereas the interface of other operating systems was refined and done by professional graphical user interface (GUI) designers (I recall his paradigm was the usual drivel about the BSD-based operating system GUI tainted by the apple's DRM/proprietary worm), that (GUI) of the OS/2 [with the orange color galore1] looked as if a couple of guys with a six pack had designed it.  And when they where done they stood back, looked at it and said, 'Yea!!!'"

When one observes, first hand, this kind of denigration of the OS/2 by the parent organization marketing representatives, one has to realize that:
Quote from: BigWarpGuy on 2008.08.11, 19:20:28
I wish this 'Microsoft-free personal computing choices' would include OS/2-eCS.  8)

is simply an illusion (if you are thinking about support from those business entities involved in the statement that you quoted).

As is usually the case in herd behaviour, after such statement, there was the giggling/laughing noise of some/many in the audience who wanted to appear gracious to their hosts.

Evidently, the OS/2 beast is chained to a wall and against an approaching spade.

  • The parent organization does not want to open source it --yet it promotes other products at the OS/2 expense.
  • The current sacred cows X or Y (to satisfy those who raise issues) are unable to bring it to meet modern challenges --yet with their outrageous pricing, effectively leave OS/2 out of the reach of those who would have the potential to rejuvenate and hack the internals of the operating system.
  • The two previous issues lead to the next conclusion: those prevent new blood from participating in the OS/2 experience; and those stifle enhancements to the operating system potential enabled by greater participation.

1Evidently, he was referring to Warp 3 and/or Warp 4 Server (based in the Warp 3 kernel).  Possibly this fellow never even tried (or it was convenient to leave out) subsequent OS/2 versions Warp 4 client and/or WSEB --which had a lot of blue embedded in the GUI.

If, there is one good thing about the U.S. Constitution "El Vato" - Then, you did not have to partake of the same "beverages" that the so-called company representative had partaken of. Hey; after all, the Summer Olympics are on and this time around it is "LENOVO" doing the sponsoring.

And, an "ROLLS ROYCE ENGINE" (and, OS/2 like Elvis) will always be an ROLLS ROYCE ENGINE (OS/2 like Elvis). And, from all appearances these must have been cases in which "share holder's value" must have been given priority over "engineering excellence...". I think you get the drift!  ;D 8) ;D

Best regards,

SAB
   

El Vato

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.12, 00:46:21
Re:

Quote from: El Vato on 2008.08.11, 23:59:41
Quote from: BigWarpGuy on 2008.08.11, 19:20:28

[...]"Microsoft-free personal computing choices."  "
[...]As is usually the case in herd behaviour, after such statement, there was the giggling/laughing noise of some/many in the audience who wanted to appear gracious to their hosts.

[...]

[...]Then, you did not have to partake of the same "beverages" that the so-called company representative had partaken of.[...]

Where does it say that I was engaged in the same "beverages" partaking ???

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.12, 00:46:21

[...] like Elvis[...] I think you get the drift!  ;D 8) ;D

Best regards,

SAB
   

The only Elvis I know of is my editor under XFRee86/2 and Linux/Unix's X Windows  :)


saborion2

Re:

QuoteWhen one observes, first hand, this kind of denigration of the OS/2 by the parent organization marketing representatives, one has to realize that:
Quote from: BigWarpGuy on 2008.08.11, 19:20:28
I wish this 'Microsoft-free personal computing choices' would include OS/2-eCS.  Cool

is simply an illusion (if you are thinking about support from those business entities involved in the statement that you quoted).

Also,

QuoteWhere does it say that I was engaged in the same "beverages" partaking  ???

Well, if the above quoted does not appear like a person with their hands on their heads.. then, what does? But then again, did we not hear that there is every likely hood that VOYAGER (also, with the possibility of CASSINI too) arriving. (Hint, Hint.... Contact Has Been Made) ;D  ;D  ;D

Regards,

SAB

saborion2

Re:

QuoteThe only Elvis I know of is my editor under XFRee86/2 and Linux/Unix's X Windows  :)

And, not to be off-topic.... So, where is the beef (the 64-bit OS/2 Alpha-Codes).

Quote

The Patriot Missile Failure

http://www.ima.umn.edu/~arnold/disasters/patriot.html


What a rainy night in "Georgia" (according to yet another distant artiste) with Elvis not being the only one being dead (like OS/2) and still making money for their owners like (IBM) (sic); "beverages", "beverages", (like water, water...) everywhere and none to drink! ???

Substituting "beverages", "beverages" for
QuoteXFRee86/2 and Linux/Unix's X Windows

And, as to why the OS/2 World Foundation in general has apparently put the issues with IBM with regards to enhancements to OS/2 on the "back-burner" is any one's guess.  8)

Regards.

SAB

El Vato

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.12, 03:36:53
[...]
QuoteWhere does it say that I was engaged in the same "beverages" partaking  ???

Well, if the above quoted does not appear like a person with their hands on their heads.. [...]


No...the above quoted does not appear like a person with their hands on their heads...SAB

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.12, 07:44:24
[...] with Elvis not being the only one being dead (like OS/2) and still making money for their owners like (IBM)

Well the multi-platform Elvis editor is free to be used for coding/development by individuals and enterprises even if those lack venture capital funding.  Additionally, the editor --being open source-- is not benefiting any entity from an closed source restriction, like in the OS/2 case.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.12, 07:44:24
(sic); "beverages", "beverages", (like water, water...) everywhere and none to drink! ???

Substituting "beverages", "beverages" for
QuoteXFRee86/2 and Linux/Unix's X Windows
[...]

And those "beverages" that derive from the Penguin can be partaken as is relevant to any business relationship with other entities.  Further, and continuing with your interpretaion of those above as "beverages", those have the potential to reinvigorate the OS/2.   Hence, do not close yourself to that possibility.

Sometimes you have to realize that one has to adapt to business strategies traced by one of the biggest puppies in the block and there should not be hard feelings.  Rather than spitting on those "beverages" --that now you associate with open source, learn to drink from those to enhance further your goals.  That is the value proposition that the Penguin offers commercial vendors, small and large alike.  In other words, when the Penguin does not offer any advantage in the market, it too, will be discarded.

I hope that with the above I have provided my opinion on the PM that you left me SAB.

Best regards.

saborion2

Hi El Vato,

You said inter alia:

Quote

Well the multi-platform Elvis editor is free to be used for coding/development by individuals and enterprises even if those lack venture capital funding.  Additionally, the editor --being open source-- is not benefiting any entity from an closed source restriction, like in the OS/2 case.


Your point is well taken; but, like it is with the case of the "eComStation Distribution"... why re-invent the "wheel". If Dr. Bernhard and his medical team could have succeeded in substituting the "heart" of a dying man then what is sooooo.... difficult that the world's best computer engineers and scientists cannot provide OS/2 with a new and improved "KERNEL"... but; then again we may have to name it OS/3, OS/4, OS/5.....  ;)

In any case - what has "functionality" (like in the case of the "human heart") got to do with whether its development is "Proprietary" or "Open-Source"? What did the "banks" knew then (when IBM recommended migration to Linux); also, what do they know now that they are not opening up the "vaults" to the "Team With (of) Linux Vendors on (with) 'Microsoft-Free' PCs"! You get the "90% Plus Market Share OOXML" Desktop picture. ???

And, by today's economic conditions (food, energy...) throughout the world - there is a factor to be considered; and, that is called - The Total Cost of Ownership (TCO)! "Linux" (the Penguin Beverages) may be for free but its (their) services offerings are not!  8)

Regards,

SAB

ModZilla

THE sound of it RINGS TRUE, if its trully Blue, TRUE BLUE, that is ...so when you are MS free does that mean you are finally cured?
someday os2 will be ruled by the young and famous-at least in the open-source world!

saborion2

So it appears...

Re:

Quote from: ModZilla on 2008.08.13, 00:07:33
THE sound of it RINGS TRUE, if its trully Blue, TRUE BLUE, that is ...so when you are MS free does that mean you are finally cured?

Also;

Quote

Countries need to spend more to prevent food crisis from deepening poverty 

http://www.iadb.org/NEWS/articledetail.cfm?language=EN&parid=4&arttype=WS&artID=4718


And;

Quote

Golden Code Development

http://www.goldencode.com/corp/about.html


From the above three scenarios with one reflecting "Blue" and another "Gold" I believe that after reading about the
Quotenewly-released numbers on the potential impact of food prices by Inter-American Development Bank
should the choice of "color" for some people not be "green" for "Enterprise Warp" instead of "blue" or "gold"; and, instead of the word "cured"... how about "freedom" (having been released from being locked-in) by the Redmond captors over the years.  ;)

Best regards,

SAB

El Vato

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.12, 21:49:01
Hi El Vato,
[...]
Dr. Bernhard [...]

I am not familiar with the fellow ...SAB

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.12, 21:49:01
then what is sooooo.... difficult that the world's best computer engineers and scientists cannot provide OS/2 with a new and improved "KERNEL"...

When a tree has a caretaker and produces fruit, you will have many visitors who adulate the tree and compliment the caretaker.  Those will show an interest in the well being of the tree by removing some of the bugs around the fruit.

On the other hand, when the OS/2 tree has been left to wither by its caretaker no one gives a hoot, let alone the "best computer engineers and scientists."  Moreover, even if some cared to bring  back the OS/2 tree to life, its proprietary encapsulation prevents any meaningful enhancements --in effect restricting those fruits to personal use and not shared for the benefit of others.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.12, 21:49:01
but; then again we may have to name it OS/3, OS/4, OS/5.....  ;)

In the proprietary scene, you do not have the flexibility and/or legal right to name others' creations by your choice.  You call those what name they were given (or licensed to be given) --this is not an either/or proposition.

If the OS/2 were open source, then, you can call your hack distribution whatever you want.  For instance, operating system X is a name given to a tainted BSD-based distribution.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.12, 21:49:01
In any case - what has "functionality" (like in the case of the "human heart") got to do with whether its development is "Proprietary" or "Open-Source"?

The focus is not necessarily on the functionality aspect; the issue is more about who or what controls that functionality and its relevance to individual choice --as opposed to the large (or small) herd collective imposing their will upon you.

As a way of example, I might cite the glaring practices of proprietary vendors in the relatively nascent industry in the X86 space: that of virtualization.  Citrix (and possibly VmWare) offers free as in beer, as well as subscription based, a GNU/Linux-based virtualization layer that they call XenServer.  But in order to take advantage of that resource to create and manipulate all your virtual machines, you must have at least an proprietary operating system from MS, their most important partner, to control those virtual entities.  In other words, the functionality comes secondary to control.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.12, 21:49:01
And, by today's economic conditions (food, energy...) throughout the world - there is a factor to be considered; and, that is called - The Total Cost of Ownership (TCO)! "Linux" (the Penguin Beverages) may be for free but its (their) services offerings are not!  8)

Well, this simply shows that the MS massive anti-Linux campaign in online e-publications has began to penetrate your psyche.  It is an old issue, really, and it depends on the customers' and/or users' technical abilities and/or time dedicated to manage an IT infrastructure. 

This is where open source concept really shines, nonetheless.  If you are an user with relatively no computer experience, try Ubuntu --free download and free updates.  If you are a medium experienced computer user, try OpenSuSE and or Fedora  --free download and free updates.  If you are a relatively technical fellow, try Debian --free download and free updates.  The schemes above will be suitable even for small to medium business (SMBs).

Notwithstanding, if you want to be hand-held during your installation, use, and maintenance of your GNU/Linux derived software, you have the choice to buy a subscription from Cannonical, Novell, or any other provider of such like Metztli IT.  Needless to say, medium to large business entities demand a strict quality of service and will not settle for anything less than a fee-based subscription business model.  Why do you think that Symphony, based on the free OpenOffice, came to life ???

Furthermore, if you are the finicky kind, you have an immense variety of GNU/Linux based distributions that will likely satisfy that "finickyness" property.

Based on all of the above, I think that you will agree that an definite TCO( alluded in past/present  MS GNU/Linux massive bashing campaigns) is really an variable quantity that depends on the time, technical abilities, level of service desired, etc., etc., of the GNU/Linux adopters.

Would it not be cool to adapt and/or customize the OS/2 to just the right target user base, instead of offering a one size fits all offering ???


saborion2

#12
Re:

Quote from: El Vato on 2008.08.13, 10:53:04
Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.12, 21:49:01
Hi El Vato,
[...]
Dr. Bernhard [...]

I am not familiar with the fellow ...SAB

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.12, 21:49:01
then what is sooooo.... difficult that the world's best computer engineers and scientists cannot provide OS/2 with a new and improved "KERNEL"...

When a tree has a caretaker and produces fruit, you will have many visitors who adulate the tree and compliment the caretaker.  Those will show an interest in the well being of the tree by removing some of the bugs around the fruit.

On the other hand, when the OS/2 tree has been left to wither by its caretaker no one gives a hoot, let alone the "best computer engineers and scientists."  Moreover, even if some cared to bring  back the OS/2 tree to life, its proprietary encapsulation prevents any meaningful enhancements --in effect restricting those fruits to personal use and not shared for the benefit of others.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.12, 21:49:01
but; then again we may have to name it OS/3, OS/4, OS/5.....  ;)

In the proprietary scene, you do not have the flexibility and/or legal right to name others' creations by your choice.  You call those what name they were given (or licensed to be given) --this is not an either/or proposition.

If the OS/2 were open source, then, you can call your hack distribution whatever you want.  For instance, operating system X is a name given to a tainted BSD-based distribution.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.12, 21:49:01
In any case - what has "functionality" (like in the case of the "human heart") got to do with whether its development is "Proprietary" or "Open-Source"?

The focus is not necessarily on the functionality aspect; the issue is more about who or what controls that functionality and its relevance to individual choice --as opposed to the large (or small) herd collective imposing their will upon you.

As a way of example, I might cite the glaring practices of proprietary vendors in the relatively nascent industry in the X86 space: that of virtualization.  Citrix (and possibly VmWare) offers free as in beer, as well as subscription based, a GNU/Linux-based virtualization layer that they call XenServer.  But in order to take advantage of that resource to create and manipulate all your virtual machines, you must have at least an proprietary operating system from MS, their most important partner, to control those virtual entities.  In other words, the functionality comes secondary to control.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.12, 21:49:01
And, by today's economic conditions (food, energy...) throughout the world - there is a factor to be considered; and, that is called - The Total Cost of Ownership (TCO)! "Linux" (the Penguin Beverages) may be for free but its (their) services offerings are not!  8)

Well, this simply shows that the MS massive anti-Linux campaign in online e-publications has began to penetrate your psyche.  It is an old issue, really, and it depends on the customers' and/or users' technical abilities and/or time dedicated to manage an IT infrastructure. 

This is where open source concept really shines, nonetheless.  If you are an user with relatively no computer experience, try Ubuntu --free download and free updates.  If you are a medium experienced computer user, try OpenSuSE and or Fedora  --free download and free updates.  If you are a relatively technical fellow, try Debian --free download and free updates.  The schemes above will be suitable even for small to medium business (SMBs).

Notwithstanding, if you want to be hand-held during your installation, use, and maintenance of your GNU/Linux derived software, you have the choice to buy a subscription from Cannonical, Novell, or any other provider of such like Metztli IT.  Needless to say, medium to large business entities demand a strict quality of service and will not settle for anything less than a fee-based subscription business model.  Why do you think that Symphony, based on the free OpenOffice, came to life ???

Furthermore, if you are the finicky kind, you have an immense variety of GNU/Linux based distributions that will likely satisfy that "finickyness" property.

Based on all of the above, I think that you will agree that an definite TCO( alluded in past/present  MS GNU/Linux massive bashing campaigns) is really an variable quantity that depends on the time, technical abilities, level of service desired, etc., etc., of the GNU/Linux adopters.

Would it not be cool to adapt and/or customize the OS/2 to just the right target user base, instead of offering a one size fits all offering ???


Hi El Vato,

From the way this is written... If nothing else one would conclude that you appear to have vested interest in the acceptance of a certain product line; but, it was not our company that helped the "banks"...

QuoteIBM, Bankers at Odds Over OS/2 Migration Path
Vendor advises OS/2 users to switch to Linux, but ATM makers are leading push to Windows

http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/story/0,10801,83884,00.html


with their decision to go in the direction of their choosing so much so that by you saying -
QuoteWell, this simply shows that the MS massive anti-Linux campaign in online e-publications has began to penetrate your psyche
you are concluding that this is true to circumstances as well as to fact in my/our own case which may very well be further from such a conclusion than you know.

BTW, Professor Christiaan Barnard (oops, spelt "Barnard" and not "Bernhard") is known to have
Quoteperformed the first human heart transplant on the third of December 1967

http://www.capegateway.gov.za/eng/your_gov/5972/pubs/public_info/C/99478

.

The above reference to "Professor Christiaan Barnard" was made in the context that neither "Windows" nor "Linux" was the first Operating System in the world thereby demonstrating the fact that there can be a "work around" (by-pass to) the so-called (OS/2 Code-Base).

But, as the saying goes - "Whilst The Grass Is Growing The Horses Are Starving" (it all about the time we all seem to spend debating these issues and not getting down to the "real development work" that needs to be done)!  ???

And; with regards to

QuoteWhen a tree has a caretaker and produces fruit, you will have many visitors who adulate the tree and compliment the caretaker.  Those will show an interest in the well being of the tree by removing some of the bugs around the fruit.

What happens when that "tree" (OS/2) bears no "fruit" (makes no money for IBM et al) at all? Also, just when will this be taking some lessons from the "first human heart transplant operation". ???

There are certain determinants other than ourselves that are called - "Market Forces"!

Regards,

SAB

El Vato

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.13, 17:47:56
Re:[...]

Hi El Vato,

From the way this is written... If nothing else one would conclude that you appear to have vested interest in the acceptance of a certain product line;

I have adapted to those market forces that you quote below.  And guess what ???  MS has began to realize that open source is an unstoppable force (or it has decided to implement another strategy instead of Ballmer's  IP FUD).   Ramji Says Microsoft's Heart Is in Open Source and *because* of that MS has become an platinum Apache sponsor

Hummm ...interesting.  At a virtualization session that I attended at LinuxWorld 2008, given by an MS employee, he described his company's strategy that I could essentially summarize as follows: at one extreme support the ubiquitous Apache, MySQL, Perl-PHP-Python web stack natively under Windows (that he called WAMP, but wait!  Did not the W stand for Warp ???);  or it could be Windows, IIS, MySQL, Perl-PHP-Python; 

At the other extreme, if MS customers desired (or had already deployed)  GNU/Linux distributions, they expected to virtualize those customers' environments under their WinServer 2008 providing their proprietary operating system infrastructure as the management foundation.  If the conversion was not pragmatically feasible, then their partner GNU/Linux distributor, Novell, would virtualize their Win environments. That way MS could cover, albeit in a limited manner since it has only partnered with Novell, many situations where GNU/Linux were deployed or preferred.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.13, 17:47:56
but, it was not our company that helped the "banks"...

QuoteIBM, Bankers at Odds Over OS/2 Migration Path
Vendor advises OS/2 users to switch to Linux, but ATM makers are leading push to Windows

http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/story/0,10801,83884,00.html


with their decision to go in the direction of their choosing so much so that by you saying -
QuoteWell, this simply shows that the MS massive anti-Linux campaign in online e-publications has began to penetrate your psyche
you are concluding that this is true to circumstances as well as to fact in my/our own case which may very well be further from such a conclusion than you know.

Recently, I visited a well known bank in San Francisco and handed out my business card.  The person on the other end read it and replied, as if by joking, "Well, how is Linux doing, I do not see it anywhere around here."  My reply: "its embedded in the infrastructure of the Internet together with Unix.  When you browse the Web, there is more than 50% likelihood that the page you are receiving comes from Linux, Apache, MySQL, Perl-PHP-Python (LAMP) stack.  What you see around is the client (WinXX) but you are using Linux everyday."

Point:  Open Source Software (OSS) was initially rejected by the capitalist mindset precisely because no one owns it.  However, since 1998, Big Blue and Oracle lead the way by gradually enabling their enterprise grade software to run on GNU/LInux.  And it is quite possible that those financial institutions business officers, from the low to the high end of the hierarchy, do not even know that their foundational business infrastructure is run on GNU/Linux.  So much for rejecting it initially for their client facing ATMs.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.13, 17:47:56
BTW, Professor Christiaan Barnard (oops, spelt "Barnard" and not "Bernhard") is known to have
Quoteperformed the first human heart transplant on the third of December 1967

http://www.capegateway.gov.za/eng/your_gov/5972/pubs/public_info/C/99478

.

The above reference to "Professor Christiaan Barnard" was made in the context that neither "Windows" nor "Linux" was the first Operating System in the world thereby demonstrating the fact that there can be a "work around" (by-pass to) the so-called (OS/2 Code-Base).

Indeed it is true.  Notwithstanding, (and using your own statement) "why reinvent the wheel."  And even if reinventing it were the way to go, where is the incentive for those "world's best computer engineers and scientists" to engage in the task ???

Nothing is created in a vacuum: GNU/Linux is a clone of Unix --that is Unix was used as an template.  What template will be used for a "new" OS/2 ???


Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.13, 17:47:56
But, as the saying goes - "Whilst The Grass Is Growing The Horses Are Starving" (it all about the time we all seem to spend debating these issues and not getting down to the "real development work" that needs to be done)!  ???

Nobody is tying the fingers of anyone to start the task ...as far as I can tell.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.13, 17:47:56
And; with regards to

QuoteWhen a tree has a caretaker and produces fruit, you will have many visitors who adulate the tree and compliment the caretaker.  Those will show an interest in the well being of the tree by removing some of the bugs around the fruit.

What happens when that "tree" (OS/2) bears no "fruit" (makes no money for IBM et al) at all? Also, just when will this be taking some lessons from the "first human heart transplant operation". ???
Why, it dies, of course! (a Briton would exclaim) and life goes on...

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.13, 17:47:56
There are certain determinants other than ourselves that are called - "Market Forces"!
[...]
SAB


You follow the puck wherever those market forces take it, SAB.  As a captain of your own little ship you need to maneuver through those --engaging the help of the open source, like the GNU/Linux Penguin, using a similar strategy as the big puppies.  Hint:  check out a Lotus Foundations partnership --you do not have to know a great deal of GNU/Linux initially to benefit from the integrated product.

saborion2

#14
Re:

Quote from: El Vato on 2008.08.14, 05:35:28
Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.13, 17:47:56
Re:[...]

Hi El Vato,

From the way this is written... If nothing else one would conclude that you appear to have vested interest in the acceptance of a certain product line;

I have adapted to those market forces that you quote below.  And guess what ???  MS has began to realize that open source is an unstoppable force (or it has decided to implement another strategy instead of Ballmer's  IP FUD).   Ramji Says Microsoft's Heart Is in Open Source and *because* of that MS has become an platinum Apache sponsor

Hummm ...interesting.  At a virtualization session that I attended at LinuxWorld 2008, given by an MS employee, he described his company's strategy that I could essentially summarize as follows: at one extreme support the ubiquitous Apache, MySQL, Perl-PHP-Python web stack natively under Windows (that he called WAMP, but wait!  Did not the W stand for Warp ???);  or it could be Windows, IIS, MySQL, Perl-PHP-Python; 

At the other extreme, if MS customers desired (or had already deployed)  GNU/Linux distributions, they expected to virtualize those customers' environments under their WinServer 2008 providing their proprietary operating system infrastructure as the management foundation.  If the conversion was not pragmatically feasible, then their partner GNU/Linux distributor, Novell, would virtualize their Win environments. That way MS could cover, albeit in a limited manner since it has only partnered with Novell, many situations where GNU/Linux were deployed or preferred.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.13, 17:47:56
but, it was not our company that helped the "banks"...

QuoteIBM, Bankers at Odds Over OS/2 Migration Path
Vendor advises OS/2 users to switch to Linux, but ATM makers are leading push to Windows

http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/story/0,10801,83884,00.html


with their decision to go in the direction of their choosing so much so that by you saying -
QuoteWell, this simply shows that the MS massive anti-Linux campaign in online e-publications has began to penetrate your psyche
you are concluding that this is true to circumstances as well as to fact in my/our own case which may very well be further from such a conclusion than you know.

Recently, I visited a well known bank in San Francisco and handed out my business card.  The person on the other end read it and replied, as if by joking, "Well, how is Linux doing, I do not see it anywhere around here."  My reply: "its embedded in the infrastructure of the Internet together with Unix.  When you browse the Web, there is more than 50% likelihood that the page you are receiving comes from Linux, Apache, MySQL, Perl-PHP-Python (LAMP) stack.  What you see around is the client (WinXX) but you are using Linux everyday."

Point:  Open Source Software (OSS) was initially rejected by the capitalist mindset precisely because no one owns it.  However, since 1998, Big Blue and Oracle lead the way by gradually enabling their enterprise grade software to run on GNU/LInux.  And it is quite possible that those financial institutions business officers, from the low to the high end of the hierarchy, do not even know that their foundational business infrastructure is run on GNU/Linux.  So much for rejecting it initially for their client facing ATMs.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.13, 17:47:56
BTW, Professor Christiaan Barnard (oops, spelt "Barnard" and not "Bernhard") is known to have
Quoteperformed the first human heart transplant on the third of December 1967

http://www.capegateway.gov.za/eng/your_gov/5972/pubs/public_info/C/99478

.

The above reference to "Professor Christiaan Barnard" was made in the context that neither "Windows" nor "Linux" was the first Operating System in the world thereby demonstrating the fact that there can be a "work around" (by-pass to) the so-called (OS/2 Code-Base).

Indeed it is true.  Notwithstanding, (and using your own statement) "why reinvent the wheel."  And even if reinventing it were the way to go, where is the incentive for those "world's best computer engineers and scientists" to engage in the task ???

Nothing is created in a vacuum: GNU/Linux is a clone of Unix --that is Unix was used as an template.  What template will be used for a "new" OS/2 ???


Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.13, 17:47:56
But, as the saying goes - "Whilst The Grass Is Growing The Horses Are Starving" (it all about the time we all seem to spend debating these issues and not getting down to the "real development work" that needs to be done)!  ???

Nobody is tying the fingers of anyone to start the task ...as far as I can tell.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.13, 17:47:56
And; with regards to

QuoteWhen a tree has a caretaker and produces fruit, you will have many visitors who adulate the tree and compliment the caretaker.  Those will show an interest in the well being of the tree by removing some of the bugs around the fruit.

What happens when that "tree" (OS/2) bears no "fruit" (makes no money for IBM et al) at all? Also, just when will this be taking some lessons from the "first human heart transplant operation". ???
Why, it dies, of course! (a Briton would exclaim) and life goes on...

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.08.13, 17:47:56
There are certain determinants other than ourselves that are called - "Market Forces"!
[...]
SAB


You follow the puck wherever those market forces take it, SAB.  As a captain of your own little ship you need to maneuver through those --engaging the help of the open source, like the GNU/Linux Penguin, using a similar strategy as the big puppies.  Hint:  check out a Lotus Foundations partnership --you do not have to know a great deal of GNU/Linux initially to benefit from the integrated product.

All of the above does very little for many others besides our company; and, here is why in a few simple words - "Economic Rate of Return (ERR) Functionality that is not yet integrated in 360 Plus (and counting) brands (kinds) of medicines (Linux Distributions) in additions to all of the various iterations of Windows. All of this having to do with a few additional simple words; namely: Application Programming Interfaces (APIs). So much kudos for that "one" little "blue" (eCS) pill that was unfortunately not available in time to give "Indelible Blue" a "booster shot" when it needed one! ;D

Besides, given that (in as much as) that the world's first recipient of another's heart did not survive; but, the Journaling File System -JFS (a functional organ of the "OS/2" body; and, not forgetting the financial life support taken away from OS/2) apparently will live on despite your ; re:
QuoteWhy, it dies, of course! (a Briton would exclaim) and life goes on...
perpetually.

Let us hope that as the years go by that the "OS/2 genes" in both Windows and Linux do not become the dominant ones.

Notice carefully how as people get older how they seem to take on the features/characteristics of their parents.  8)

Hopefully, there will be eComStation still around to provide the "DNA samples".  ;D

Best regards,

SAB