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Improvement of the Bounty System

Started by kim, 2008.03.25, 17:12:11

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kim

About the bounty system; one suggestion that has been made on how we can improve the bounty system is that we actually asks the developers to set a fixed price that can be guaranteed if the task is fulfilled. This would actually be a way of prioritizing among the several tasks available and as well, it might be more clear for both private and corporate users where to put their money.

Above is a suggestion that has been made and I'm sure that there are several other ways that we can improve the bounty system; but we need you to post the thoughts and ideas - now is the time and not tomorrow! :-)

saborion2

Hi "kimhav, You wrote "About the bounty system; one suggestion that has been made on how we can improve the bounty system is that we actually asks the developers to set a fixed price that can be guaranteed if the task is fulfilled. This would actually be a way of prioritizing among the several tasks available and as well, it might be more clear for both private and corporate users where to put their money..."

Questions that come to mind are as follows:-

1. Who are these "developers" being referred to and in which countries do they reside.

2. If IBM is unwilling to provide access to the OS/2 Source-Codes how then will these
    "developers" in question be in a position to port the respective applications to the
    OS/2, eComStation Platforms.

3. Will/can there be a "central repository" (country) for the resolution of all the OS/2
    Enhancements, Porting issues.

4. What are guarantees on the "life" of an application developed/ported by a
    "developer" or company for that matter.

5. Are there any future engagements/contact planned between IBM and the OS/2 World
    Foundation towards the future of the OS/2 Operating System.

Thanks.

Just my few cents.  ;)

kim

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.03.25, 19:40:221. Who are these "developers" being referred to and in which countries do they reside.

Ah... the developers, well you're guess is as good as mine ;-) To be honest; we could use more but looking at utilities released it seems that we can find a few of them in Germany, US, Netherlands, Russia, Ukraine, Hungary.. guess that I missed out a few countries there. But, what this shows is that the "resources" that we have are scattered out all over and Netlabs and Warpstock are among other two forums that you'll find a few of them. I also hope that OS2 World is an inviting hang out for developers. But, we sure could use more and therefore I also think that we should figure out how we can make the best of the situation that we have. As well, if we could add a few bucks into the whole master plan I think that this could make it all a bit better. Also and I know that this has been a topic earlier, but creating some kind of developer kit or at least proper documentation how to get started might be a good approach as well. There are still a steady flow of software releases for OS2 and I think that we all can agree that it's needed to keep this OS alive.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.03.25, 19:40:222. If IBM is unwilling to provide access to the OS/2 Source-Codes how then will these
    "developers" in question be in a position to port the respective applications to the
    OS/2, eComStation Platforms.

I don't think I'm the right person to answer above question; but what kind of ports are you talking about that one needs the source code for? As far as I know, porting generic Linux applications doesn't have the need for this; but of course I could be totally off here. Are there any specific ports that you have in mind?

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.03.25, 19:40:223. Will/can there be a "central repository" (country) for the resolution of all the OS/2
    Enhancements, Porting issues.

Well, among other there has been raised suggestions to set up ticket and bug reporting system to support the bounties and gather everything under the same roof. Primary this will be offered for those who don't want to set up their own ticket system to support a small application.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.03.25, 19:40:224. What are guarantees on the "life" of an application developed/ported by a
    "developer" or company for that matter.

Well, in one way we can't; but the rules to be able to claim a bounty clearly states that the code has to be open source. One could then suggest that OS2 World Foundation should be the holder of the source together with the developers to be able to support the continuity of the development. If this is an approach we should go for; I don't know; but I'm very interested of getting input regarding this topic.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.03.25, 19:40:225. Are there any future engagements/contact planned between IBM and the OS/2 World
    Foundation towards the future of the OS/2 Operating System.

Yes, there is and we will approach IBM and send them a reply on the letter that we received with suggestion that hopefully should be of benefit for both parties. This among other why OS/2 World.Com now is maintained by OS/2 World Foundation which is registered society in Sweden. Suggestion regarding the petition should be posted in the OS2 Petition board.

Paul Smedley

Quote from: kimhav on 2008.03.25, 21:21:06
Ah... the developers, well you're guess is as good as mine ;-) To be honest; we could use more but looking at utilities released it seems that we can find a few of them in Germany, US, Netherlands, Russia, Ukraine, Hungary.. guess that I missed out a few countries there.

Cough... Australia.. Cough

:)

saborion2

#4
"Ah... the developers, well you're guess is as good as mine ;-) To be honest; we could use more but looking at utilities released it seems that we can find a few of them in Germany, US, Netherlands, Russia, Ukraine, Hungary.. guess that I missed out a few countries there".

How about the holding of a Developers Conference (international in nature  ??? ) that would enable the compilation of a listing of all the countries in which "developers" are located/can be found.  ::) . If the memory still serves me very well there used to be it is believed an conference named "WarpCon"; and, if such an event is planned for the very near future; and, it is being held in the United States of America then our company will be the first in line to register for this event. ;D

Also, is there any information on the number of "active" OS/2 User Groups around the world?  :-\

BTW, aren't there not some "developers" in a North American country called "Canada". Also, what about the country in South America called Brazil :)


kim

Quote from: Paul Smedley on 2008.03.25, 22:04:59Cough... Australia.. Cough :)

Oups! How could I miss Australia? Well, I was thinking Paul in my head when writing the post; but guess that it stayed there and never came down to the keyboard :-)

kim

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.03.25, 21:59:57Here is a quick response for you; and, this "Bounty" (which is very much likely to be increased once we can get in contact with the "right' folks so that this can be negotiated) was posted by yours truly. ;D

"Native Port of Lotus Notes 8.0, Lotus SameTime... to OS/2"

Right, well true; above bounty need a bit more work; and getting in contact with the right people is of course a need as well. Problem is that we could need some more people to help out with the bounty activities when it comes to contact companies and document our needs. Both Martin and Björn are doing quite a bit and as well we now also have Jan-Erik Lärka who's working on getting some other software open sourced. But, as with all activities, everything takes time when it's a few individuals tied up with loads of activities.

But, having said that; no one would be more happy to get more people to help out with this kind of activities. So anyone open to help out with this; well you know where to find either Björn Söderström who's Bounty Manager or Martin Iturbide and Jan-Erik Lärka who's working with getting software open sourced.

kim

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.03.25, 22:21:43
How about the holding of a Developers Conference (international in nature  ??? ) that would enable the compilation of a listing of all the countries in which "developers" are located/can be found.  ::) . If the memory still serves me very well there used to be it is believed an conference named "WarpCon"; and, if such an event is planned for the very near future; and, it is being held in the United States of America then our company will be the first in line to register for this event. ;D

Well, there are both the Warpstock USA & Europe conference once per year and as well Netlabs Developer conferens in Europe. But, I'm quite sure that if it's possible to rally together more people in different parts of US i'm sure that it's possible to arrange developer conference in US.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.03.25, 22:21:43Also, is there any information on the number of "active" OS/2 User Groups around the world?  :-\

Nothing up to date what I know about. I can only speak from the point of view how it is here in Scandinavia and the Swedish OS2 User Group foundet 1991 is now OS/2 World Foundation and user group in Denmark and Norway aren't responding anymore to e-mail sent to them. They do have their sites up still; but saddly now response anymore.

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.03.25, 22:21:43BTW, aren't there not some "developers" in a North American country called "Canada".  :)

Sure, you'll among other find http://ecomstation.ca/ that I guess would be a good site to start from.

chennecke

The most important improvement to me would be to reorganize the handling of money. Basically, this needs to be more transparent and practical.

Currently, you donate the money immediately when you sponsor a bounty. This money is not available to you anymore even if nobody works on that project for a long time. The transfer from the credit card / PayPal account should take place when the task has been completed.

If this way of handling payments turns out to be not viable I suggest placing the money on some bank account where it earns an interest so no actual value is lost due to inflation. This would require some kind of report to the sponsors.

Another thing is the way that things are handled when a bounty is claimed. This also needs to be more transparent. I know that there's the supporting thread in the forum. However, there needs to be some clear way of determining which criteria have been met and - if so - which haven't and to what extent. Unfortunately, this will add some level of bureaucracy but that is better than losing potential sponsors due to distrust.

saborion2

#9
Talking about "money and "banking" (the home of OS/2) - This "crazy" idea (indecent proposal ::)) has popped-up in my head having read "chennecke's" - "The most important improvement to me would be to reorganize the handling of money. Basically, this needs to be more transparent and practical.

Currently, you donate the money immediately when you sponsor a bounty. This money is not available to you anymore even if nobody works on that project for a long time. The transfer from the credit card / PayPal account should take place when the task has been completed.

If this way of handling payments turns out to be not viable I suggest placing the money on some bank account where it earns an interest so no actual value is lost due to inflation. This would require some kind of report to the sponsors..."  ::)

Here it is: Since IBM cannot release the Source-Codes for the OS/2 Operating System for the reasons IBM has stated - how about mandating the OS/2 World Foundation to solicit funds from anywhere in the world (Venture Capitalists, Sponsors, Pre-Paid Subscriptions...) for the specific purposes the enhancements to the OS/2 Operating System and to enable this Operating System to run on Modern Hardware and the creation of Automatic Updates Features of the Operating System for download and installation to users' computers whenever the updates become available (six-monthly...). Overall responsibility for the Management of Funds, Operating System Updates, Maintenance, IT Road Map... will rest with the OS/2 World Foundation. And , those are just the "crazy" ideas (indecent proposals) to be taken to Wall Street and IBM under mandate by the OS/2 World Foundation. ;D ;D ;D

 

saborion2

#10
Oh, Oh! "Talking about "money and "banking" (the home of OS/2)" Now, just what is this "guy" up to (think that you can figure out who the "guy" is from the below article and what he will be saying to this particular banking community?  :-[ )

"Government and Business Leaders to attend IDB Group Annual Meeting in Miami, April 4–8"

"Microsoft's Bill Gates and IDB President Moreno will hold special session" (If "Gates" is going to be there shouldn't the OS/2 World Foundation be there too to *monitor* things  ::) ::) ::)?  ;)

http://www.iadb.org/NEWS/articledetail.cfm?artid=4477&language=En 

So, from "chennecke's" perspective regarding "Improvement of the Bounty System" it may not be all about the "money" management; but, the "technological development aspects/strategies" of/for the OS/2 environment; also, the indomitable will of the Kim Haverblads of the OS/2 World Foundation - moving forward.  :-X

Just my two cents.

warpcafe

Quote from: chennecke on 2008.03.26, 16:31:14
The most important improvement to me would be to reorganize the handling of money. Basically, this needs to be more transparent and practical.
I agree!!

Quote from: chennecke on 2008.03.26, 16:31:14
This money is not available to you anymore even if nobody works on that project for a long time.
...yep. I remember that we had been talking about that one year (or more) ago and I also suggested that the bounty admins should check a deadline after which the bounty expires. In return, a bounty sponsor could perhaps include a note "I agree that if the money is not claimed, it might be used for bounty xyz..." or in a pool, whatever....

Quote from: chennecke on 2008.03.26, 16:31:14
Another thing is the way that things are handled when a bounty is claimed. This also needs to be more transparent. I know that there's the supporting thread in the forum. However, there needs to be some clear way of determining which criteria have been met and - if so - which haven't and to what extent. Unfortunately, this will add some level of bureaucracy but that is better than losing potential sponsors due to distrust.
Again, I agree. At least, a checklist of the requested key features should be available, if things are not self-explaining like in "porting bla-bla to eCS". This would be of benefit for the developers (clear targets) but also for those who need to check if the final claim is OK.

Regards,
Thomas
"It is not worth an intelligent man's time to be in the majority.
By definition, there are already enough people to do that"
- G.H. Hardy

warpcafe

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.03.26, 17:27:53
Here it is: Since IBM cannot release the Source-Codes for the OS/2 Operating System for the reasons IBM has stated - how about mandating the OS/2 World Foundation to solicit funds from anywhere in the world (Venture Capitalists, Sponsors, Pre-Paid Subscriptions...) for the specific purposes the enhancements to the OS/2 Operating System and to enable this Operating System to run on Modern Hardware and the creation of Automatic Updates Features of the Operating System for download and installation to users' computers whenever the updates become available (six-monthly...). Overall responsibility for the Management of Funds, Operating System Updates, Maintenance, IT Road Map... will rest with the OS/2 World Foundation. And , those are just the "crazy" ideas (indecent proposals) to be taken to Wall Street and IBM under mandate by the OS/2 World Foundation. ;D ;D ;D   

Well, for the "enhancements..."-part: Feel free to set up a bounty.
For the "taken to Wall Street and IBM"-part... you named it: Crazy.

Oh, BTW: Do you actually try to link the OS2World bounty system with a global fund that should be used as an incentive for IBM to get back onto the OS/2 track?? Please tell me that I got you wrong...

Regards,
Thomas
"It is not worth an intelligent man's time to be in the majority.
By definition, there are already enough people to do that"
- G.H. Hardy

Andi710

Quote from: kimhav on 2008.03.25, 17:12:11
Above is a suggestion that has been made and I'm sure that there are several other ways that we can improve the bounty system; but we need you to post the thoughts and ideas - now is the time and not tomorrow! :-)

I would like to be able to put a deadline on the bounty (with an option to extend it in case something moved into the right direction (or the sponsor believes it is still worthwhile to keep the bounty up)). I have quite some money invested in several projects and see only very little (=no) development with some of these (truecrypt for instance). Feels kind of uncomfortable to have a lot of sunk money when it could be used for better (more active) projects ) - or to pay my rent ;o)

kim

#14
Quote from: chennecke on 2008.03.26, 16:31:14
The most important improvement to me would be to reorganize the handling of money. Basically, this needs to be more transparent and practical.

This is going to be changed and in the near future we will be able to receive money via normal bank transfers; PayPal might still be needed due to that the bank fees to transfer money from countries outside EC is way too high and here PayPal looks like an alternativ; of course there are other services such as Moneybrookers; but we need alternatives way of handling it. Via MenSys is an alternative also and they've offered them self to help as well. But, as said, everything is going to be moved over to the Foundation.

Quote from: chennecke on 2008.03.26, 16:31:14Currently, you donate the money immediately when you sponsor a bounty. This money is not available to you anymore even if nobody works on that project for a long time. The transfer from the credit card / PayPal account should take place when the task has been completed.

It might be so that it's easier to raise the bounty if people only need to say that they support a bounty; but how would we then actually guarantee the bounty money itself?

And to summarize what several has said is that we need to follow up better on when to quit and end a bounty and in that case move the money to either another open and valid bounty or re-fund of the bounty money. This are the changes that we need to do and as Warpcafe said earlier this is also what we have been talking about earlier. So what it boils down to is that we among other needs to improve and clarify the bounty rules that we current have.

And the money handling is something that we're currently working on; there are a few papers that we're still waiting for before making the proper changes of transfering the funds to OS2 WF bank accounts, etc.