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eComStation: Not for Everyone

Started by kim, 2008.04.29, 17:00:36

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kim

http://www.os2world.com/content/view/17985/1/
QuoteSo far I've gotten one or the other to run on the half-dozen machines I've tried, but there was always something which made the results unusable. The fixing was typically quite involved, and it always came down to cheaper hardware being poorly supported.

Guess that most of us have had mixed results when trying out the latest RC4 on the hardware that we got. Question is if Serenity/MenSys manage to fix everything and if they plan to release another RC to give another test round - even for a shorter period. Clearly when for example testing the RC4 release on AMD based system I've found that it didn't work out that well and I also would like to see a major update of the Adaptec drivers as well. Regarding Adaptec drivers the new cards are identified by the card checker utility that's included with the latest IBM drivers; but it seems that the card id isn't recognized by the drivers itself. Suggestions has been made that this could easily be fixed.

saborion2

#1
Quote from: kimhav on 2008.04.29, 17:00:36
http://www.os2world.com/content/view/17985/1/
QuoteSo far I've gotten one or the other to run on the half-dozen machines I've tried, but there was always something which made the results unusable. The fixing was typically quite involved, and it always came down to cheaper hardware being poorly supported.

Guess that most of us have had mixed results when trying out the latest RC4 on the hardware that we got. Question is if Serenity/MenSys manage to fix everything and if they plan to release another RC to give another test round - even for a shorter period. Clearly when for example testing the RC4 release on AMD based system I've found that it didn't work out that well and I also would like to see a major update of the Adaptec drivers as well. Regarding Adaptec drivers the new cards are identified by the card checker utility that's included with the latest IBM drivers; but it seems that the card id isn't recognized by the drivers itself. Suggestions has been made that this could easily be fixed.

In that our company was planning to most likely roll out (enterprise wide with offices in New York, USA and in Guyana, South America) on the next release of eComStation then these issues that were mentioned by "kimhav"  ;) become very important for us. It is also for these support (fixing) and other reasons that it is felt that the OS/2 World Foundation should press for closer contact/collaboration with IBM for help in addressing any and all issues pertaining to the OS/2 - eComstation Operating Systems in an overall effort that will be beneficial to OS/2 - eComStation users around the world as well as the OS/2 -eComstation community on the whole.

And, from all appearances, given the developing "social" and "economic" situations in some countries around the world in will be prudent if some or all of these issues are addressed today; and, not tomorrow which might be too late.  :-X

Best regards.

SAB.
 

miturbide

This article doesn't say anything.

It is the same thing we have read year after year about OS/2. It is a weak investigation/testing of the OS, it don't even say clearly which version of eComStation used or under which hardware. He just gives some historic references to try to bring back the "OS/2 shame". It do not have any positive point or any constructive criticisms, it just focus on the negative side.

So, I can conclude:

- Windows Vista Home cost USD$100, so it is not suitable for poor countries - Windoww Is not for Everyone.
- To have a Mac OS you need to buy Mac - Mac OS Is not for Everyone.
- Linux do not support my web cam. Linux Is not for Everyone.
- I don't know how to use FreeBSD. FreeBSD Is not for Everyone.
- I like to whine about everything. "<Put the OS Name Here>" Is not for Everyone.

So, under the same criteria I consider that article crap. 
Martín Itúrbide
OS2World.com NewsMaster
Open Source Advocate

Skype - martiniturbide
Google Talk - martiniturbide@gmail.com

saborion2

Quote from: miturbide on 2008.04.29, 18:55:47
This article doesn't say anything.

It is the same thing we have read year after year about OS/2. It is a weak investigation/testing of the OS, it don't even say clearly which version of eComStation used or under which hardware. He just gives some historic references to try to bring back the "OS/2 shame". It do not have any positive point or any constructive criticisms, it just focus on the negative side.

So, I can conclude:

- Windows Vista Home cost USD$100, so it is not suitable for poor countries - Windoww Is not for Everyone.
- To have a Mac OS you need to buy Mac - Mac OS Is not for Everyone.
- Linux do not support my web cam. Linux Is not for Everyone.
- I don't know how to use FreeBSD. FreeBSD Is not for Everyone.
- I like to whine about everything. "<Put the OS Name Here>" Is not for Everyone.

So, under the same criteria I consider that article crap. 

Hi Martin,

That was an interesting rebuttal.

Here is what our company plans to do... as an IBM Business Partner we are planning to deploy on the most recent update of OS/2 Warp (this should be Ver. 4.52); and, because there will be mission critical objectives to be considered it will appear at this time that only "limited trust" can be expected through a deployment of eComStation - unless the folks at Serenity Systems International or anyone else know otherwise.

BTW, as an IBM Business Partner there will be no "Software" costs to considered; only those of "Hardware"; and, possibly - "Consultancy Services" which will most likely be passed on to our clientèle.

Meanwhile, we have placed a Bounty in the OS/2 WF's Bounty System.

Best regards.

SAB


saborion2

Hmmm... I guess the below attached link was where Martin got his info from...

Quote

In the coming months, Serenity Systems and Mensys will be offering the latest release of eComStation, 2.0. This is the new name and face on the venerable OS/2. It's all too easy to find websites discussing the history of OS/2, articles that walk through the installation process, and lists of drivers, software, and so forth. Despite the ardent love for OS/2 one finds in the user groups, it remains a fairly small niche operating system. This has little to do with the technical merits or demerits of OS/2......

http://www.ofb.biz/safari/article/459.html


To be quite honest; and, not wanting to "rub" things in... but, were we not provided with similar details about a possible GA Date for eComStation 2.0 over one year ago - yet more waiting. ???

Best regards.

SAB


RobertM

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.05.05, 16:43:19
To be quite honest; and, not wanting to "rub" things in... but, were we not provided with similar details about a possible GA Date for eComStation 2.0 over one year ago - yet more waiting. ???

Yes, we are still waiting. I'm happily waiting. Would I rather it be out now? Yes. But not at the expense of better driver and ACPI support, or at the expense of number of machines it will install on successfully. I've watched Vista have horrendous uptake numbers (all while MS tries to force XP users to switch), simply because they didnt get it right the first time (or even close), and havent gotten it right with the SP.

I prefer Serenity does it right on this release. They aren't going from a 1.2 to a 1.3 version number release. They are going to a 2.0 version release - with some very compelling updates. Unfortunately, those updates need further testing to make it viable. The good thing is, there have been numerous beta's and release candidates, as well as many updates to the related system (such as ACPI) - all of which show they are working on it.

For our customers, we'd love to roll out SMP support (without the exhorbitant cost of WSeB) and support for various other ACPI enabled hardware - so we are anxiously awaiting the next release - BUT - it must be as solid as the previous release. The servers we deploy must be up 24/7, every day, without fail, without incident.

If Serenity rushed this to make (or be closer to) their previously announced release date, it would leave my company with two choices:

  • (1) Decide whether we could stick with v1.2MR until they get it right
  • (2) Look at a Linux alternative

I'm glad we dont have to make either choice. The first one would require being more and more selective with hardware (as more old hardware gets phased out, and newer incompatible hardware takes it's place); while the second option would require rewriting various pieces of code and spending time looking for issues caused in the code because we never bothered really looking for high CPU utilization code since OS/2 schedules it so well - and Linux doesnt schedule it quite as well.

So... to summarize... I hope they release it (as) soon (as it is ready).

Robert


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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Fahrvenugen

I have to agree, while I would love to see ecs 2.0 GA, what is more important to me is a solid product then  beta code put out as if it is GA.

I've had to support Windows clients and OS/2 / eCS clients.  The one common thing is that with just about every major release of Windows (with maybe the exception being Windows 2000 which was pretty good out of the box), the initial release has felt troublesome, it has usually taken some time to "get it right".

On the other hand, OS/2 has generally  just worked, with the exception of perhaps replacing a few drivers to get it to work (for example, on an older OS/2 install, replacing the old IBM1S506 with Danis506, etc). 


saborion2

Hi All,

There were two paragraphs in the OFB article that "struck a chord" where I am concerned; and, these two paragraphs were/are as follows:

Quote

However, that doesn't dampen my curiosity. The fundamental call to explore other ways of computing reflects more my interest in helping people find what they need for what they do. I'm not often that interested in the canonical methods promoted by the core community of advocates for each OS I try. I'm much more interested in how the larger number of those who use an OS as a primary tool of their work use that tool. It's easy to get fanboys to tell you why their demigod OS is best, and some of it may actually have roots in reality, but the religious fanatics aren't representative of the larger user base. The nature of the OS as product is found among those who can't get their job done as well with anything else.

The first thing we note is many devoted users are simply accustomed to the peculiarities of their OS. Investing a great deal of time and effort learning something makes it expensive to switch. For example, my first contact with computers was compliments of the US Army, where I spent hours working with a DOS office suite called Enable. I loved it. For the first time, here was a tool where I could merrily type away and not worry about losing my train of thought while fussing over minor corrections. Once I was through, I could go back and fix all the typos and grammar errors before it was committed to print. This was a major improvement in my world. I became the local guru of that office suite. Later the military abandoned it for Windows and GUI office applications. For long years I remembered the oddball keystrokes, but could never get a copy of the software. Recently, I found if I joined the Enable users' group at Thog's Cave, I could get a copy of the last release of Enable/OA "Office Automation." While I've forgotten many of the keystrokes, I'd gladly trade OpenOffice for Enable any day, simply because I know more about it, and prefer the way it works. It's much the same about Linux and BSD, where I run Enable in DOSEmu. Unix seems to me what computing should be. I could never go back to Windows comfortably because one cannot make it act like Unix.

http://www.ofb.biz/safari/article/459.html


What, if after waiting so long for eComStation Ver. 2 to arrive... lots of folks find themselves disappointed with the product when compared to others such as (Linux, Windows, OpenSolaris.... The big question would then be - What's next?

Just my 2 cents.  :-X

Best regards.

SAB


warpcafe

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.05.06, 07:22:58
What, if after waiting so long for eComStation Ver. 2 to arrive... lots of folks find themselves disappointed with the product when compared to others such as (Linux, Windows, OpenSolaris.... The big question would then be - What's next?

Here's to everyone who is (will be) disappointed by eCS 2.0 GA:
If you are disappointed when comparing eCS to (whatever OS) then simply don't compare, heck!
The main intention at this point in time is not to make eCS like Windows, Linux, blabla,... (because we simply can't) but rather to make eCS better than it was before (in previous releases) either by broadening support for contemporary hardware, making drivers more stable, streamline the setup or improve 3rd party tools delivered along with the OS.

Basically, "what's next" is simply replied to as:
Stay or leave. Decide for yourself.
This is the everyday question anyway for OS/2 and eCS users: Shall I stay with it because it does what I need or should I invest my precious lifetime into "using" a different operating system rather than wasting it by trying to work around OS/2's (todays) limitations.

Cheers,
Thomas
"It is not worth an intelligent man's time to be in the majority.
By definition, there are already enough people to do that"
- G.H. Hardy