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OS/2 Vs. Windows... The Debate Rages On

Started by S.SubZero, 2007.11.02, 08:49:11

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ModZilla

When/while I worked for IBM there were tools being developed which would cost millions to bring to market...R&D products which did not exist and might never had existed if it were not for risk capital and a vision of how this or that thing could be used and by whom. When there is an idea, and you couple it with capital and you ara willing to take on the BIG risk you can launch something that never before existed and the competition for the product is at that point nil...as no other product line exists to compete with it. That is the ideal, and unfortunately according to ROB most people do not know how to do much else than point and click, they may have an intellimouse, and an MS keyboard and an MS game or two, plus an Xbox and an Xbox three sixty, having bought into the consumer ideal. So on the one hand its ideal to have no competition going in...after awhile having no choice but to buy buy buy even though the BSOD is still very much alive and well, there in effect can be no competition as no one [your avg jo aka j.q.publik-] knows or cares about the difference between OSes, open whatever...they just want something that works plain and simple, it its a breadmaker and someone tells them its the best not only because the thing kneads well but bakes slices and dices it and hell even pours on the peanut butter...but in the world of computing control is a big factor in that decision as opposed to better features, control by nixing out as many other potential choices as possible, weather it be browsers, mice, game boys, or xboxes...soon ibm will probubly back down to MS as they take over the mobo/chip process and then you will begin to see the assault against/on intel, amd, and even lessor known chip slicers and etchers...I was ALSO involved in the early years when chips were grown in our garage...the Apple II was yet to be assembled in theirs and look where they have gone with the ipod, guess big bill got a big kick out of the ipod...but who really needs Em? ...market forces be what they are, its easy to sway j.q. public and put one over on 'em esp whe he/she is unaware of the fact that choice is important, without we'd all be forced to eat our greens after every cycling event to/from the office...Bejing is full of classrooms underground, you can go there and learn about who will get you, buy a bike and be happy, and if you stay in the hole long enough we will all be "safe" from the big capitalists:Big Green Meanies from the West who cant seem to quite get it right even though they try...so we are all going the wrong way perhaps, as nasty consumers lagging behind what is known as the big conspriracy theory...global poppy dookie!   
someday os2 will be ruled by the young and famous-at least in the open-source world!

RobertM

#91
Quote from: ModZilla on 2008.09.09, 01:50:05
When/while I worked for IBM there were tools being developed which would cost millions to bring to market...R&D products which did not exist and might never had existed if it were not for risk capital and a vision of how this or that thing could be used and by whom. When there is an idea, and you couple it with capital and you ara willing to take on the BIG risk you can launch something that never before existed and the competition for the product is at that point nil...as no other product line exists to compete with it. That is the ideal, and unfortunately according to ROB most people do not know how to do much else than point and click... 

Not quite stated as an accurate portrayal of the meaning I intended, regardless of whether it is accurate or not. My point was (Which I think you misunderstood) that Microsoft has equated certain things with their products as if their products were those things.

Here's another real world example (where it doesnt work)... you sneeze, and ask for a Kleenex(R) to wipe your nose. I would guess that 99% of people out there are in reality asking for a facial tissue, and using the brand name of the "most well known/famous" - but there's where the difference exists... people know that Kleenex is facial tissue, and know that facial tissue is not necessarily Kleenex.

Due to Microsoft's advertising and propaganda campaigns coupled with their anti-competitive, illegal actions to ensure limited exposure of competing products, people equate IE as the Internet... as opposed to it as one (of numerous) methods of using the Internet. "I was using IE yesterday and found...." should mean "I was using a particular browser (which is one of multiple ones I could have used) and found..." - instead, many computer users equate it as the same as saying "I was using the Internet to find.... I didnt use Firefox because (a) I didnt even know it existed - and/or (b) even if I did, it's not the Internet... Internet Explorer is the Internet... I dont know what Firefox has to do with that. I know this, because IE is the 'Internet', because that's what the icon says it is on my computer... and Firefox isn't"

The key part of my statement, which you reduced the meaning of by applying one of many options or combinations to everything, is bolded below:

"Many people do not understand, do not want to understand, are unable to understand, dont care, and/or unwilling to care (pick one or more of those) that such a scenario is NOT the case."

You chose to pick one as my meaning, thus applying that section inappropriately. The intent was, depending on the "Joe-Average Computer User" one, or more of those would apply... pick which one or more applied to the particular "Joe-Average Computer User" - not you pick which one you think I mean applies.

And by "unable to understand" I am not implying a lack of intelligence, nor a lack of ability to understand more technical aspects of computers. Instead, I am referencing the simple "fact of life" that if the knowledge and information is not out there (as it relates to other choices) for them to ingest, they will be unable to understand anything but what it is they are being exposed to (in this case, referencing the often "singular" solutions from Microsoft, with no exposure/knowledge about alternatives... this can be applied as a direct reference to things lie Microsoft's actions to ensure that a competing browser was not released on OEM installed machines, or that OEMs would not install OS/2, or pressuring the media to print incorrect articles (if any at all) about OS/2 - thus preventing the "Joe Average Computer User" from being able to understand about such things, since all they were "taught" is that only Microsoft solutions (pick whichever applies to the particular individual) (a) exist, (b) do the job, (c) are the task at hand (again, such as IE=Internet as car=car), and (d) work on a PC.

Hopefully that helps make my post more understandable.

Sorry if there was confusion in my wording...


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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saborion2

What is the point of OS/2ers bashing "Windows" when from all appearances "Windows" is now comfortable hugging "Linux" rather that it's "Half Brother" IBM's OS/2.  8)

Re:

Quote

Microsoft, Novell partner on virtualization

One of the nice advantages of server virtualization is the ability to run Linux and Windows on the same server. One of the headaches, though, is getting help when something goes wrong.

Microsoft and Novell on Thursday said they are going to try to make things a little easier. The pair announced that they will jointly support a virtualization scenario in which Suse Linux is running as a guest operating system under Microsoft's Hyper-V virtualization.

The companies said partners such as Dell will test the setup at the joint lab the two companies have in Cambridge, Mass. It's the latest fruit of a nearly 2-year-old alliance between the two companies.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10039101-75.html?tag=newsEditorsPicksArea.0



ddan

Crimosoft wants to "hug" Linux the way Aliens wanted to "hug" Sigourney Weaver. You are evidently playing the "mad scientist" role of insisting that we should "study" what's clearly out to eat us alive.

saborion2

#94
Quote from: ddan on 2008.09.11, 22:44:26
Crimosoft wants to "hug" Linux the way Aliens wanted to "hug" Sigourney Weaver. You are evidently playing the "mad scientist" role of insisting that we should "study" what's clearly out to eat us alive.


Is there not the understanding that "you become what you eat"; then, if this is truly the case why not get yourself consumed (swallowed up) like the dude was according to that Biblical Story; in that way you find out exactly what is inside the "Black Hole"!  8)

ddan

I now find my reply to 'What is the point of OS/2ers bashing "Windows" when
from all appearances "Windows" is now comfortable hugging "Linux" rather that
it's "Half Brother" IBM's OS/2.' to be too glib.

That's actually a deep philosophical and even religious question which of
course has been answered many times. Rephrased, it's: What is the point of
resisting evil? (Especially when it's SO easy to go along with it as most
people do, and they visibly profit from it, too.)

Well, IF you recognize an evil, then you're pretty much obligated to resist
it, or you're complicit. Yielding to it as a practical matter should be done
only as necessary to continue the struggle. But as Crimosoft itself sneers, if
they're not stopped at SOME point, then THEY are NOT stopping short of
complete monopoly. ── You should learn from history of how hard CHOICE has
been fought for, how easily it's lost. ── Even if the struggle were futile ──
it's not ── then to be at all moral, you MUST protest evil when you see it.

I assume that no one here endorses Crimosoft's business practices, regardless
what is thought of the technical merits ── and "ease" ── of their products.

Crimosoft has a stated goal of eliminating ALL competition. Just download:
http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/Comes-3096.pdf
Everyone should read it. (You can skip most of the last half, duplicative at
best.)

You can't hope that being friendly to a ravening beast will even cause it to
eat you last. Just try to imagine life IF they achieve their stated goal.

saborion2

#96
Re:

QuoteCrimosoft has a stated goal of eliminating ALL competition. Just download:
http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/Comes-3096.pdf
Everyone should read it. (You can skip most of the last half, duplicative at
best.)

You can't hope that being friendly to a ravening beast will even cause it to
eat you last. Just try to imagine life IF they achieve their stated goal.

The chances are that with a population of 10,000 or more "Tuxedo Clad Birds" around the chances of survival ought to be very good. And, if you recall the incident with the herd of buffaloes, the lions and the crocodiles then what will prevent "OS/2ers" from battling like the buffaloes did and not get ravaged by the "beast"! Is the power of  "OS/2ers" (like the buffaloes) in the "horns", the "body" or the "brain"? And, remember that in the end (as was mentioned before) "You Become what You Eat; and, may the best "genes" survive. In this game perhaps, it is called - "The Survival Of The Fittest"  8)


ModZilla

ok, lets say we trashed this one, but I have yet another thought about the raging debate...we are all right on in our conceptions as we each have our own point of view...the fact remains that there is no real business model that is perfect, some feel they buy something that if it is licensed, that they own it anyway and make up a bunch of backup copies, hack it, pirate it in their own offices...I worked for a major Architect in Balto. who had several workstations dedicated on a network with AutoCAD as the product delivery system...we worked our asses off, meanwhile most people including some intructors, in autocad, like myself, didnt know that the app was pirated from machine to machine. Later in life I have found that even the big box stores sell pirated OSes with oem machines, they dont know its pirated either. If everything comes from China, then you have to begin to grow out of side by side business models and see the light. The whole deal is a scam no matter what OS you use. Unless of course you wrote the thing yourself. Too Timely you say? (Isnt there a C_+++++...app that will do this very thing point and click?) 
someday os2 will be ruled by the young and famous-at least in the open-source world!

WarpWorld

What's conclusion? Who is better Windows or OS/2  :D

Ben

Quote from: Bojan89 on 2009.09.11, 21:34:25What's conclusion? Who is better Windows or OS/2  :D

No, no, no!

Without a doubt...

"Bob" was the best OS ever.. made. >:(


RobertM

Quote from: Ben on 2009.09.11, 23:43:05
Quote from: Bojan89 on 2009.09.11, 21:34:25What's conclusion? Who is better Windows or OS/2  :D

No, no, no!

Without a doubt...

"Bob" was the best OS ever.. made. >:(



Well, as Ben is correct: Bob was the best OS ever made...  ;D

The answer to your question (Bojan) is whichever OS best serves the users needs. If you asked which is better at threading, it's OS/2. If you asked which is better at running Video Production/Editing Suites, it's Windows (it would be MacOSX if this were OS/2 vs Windows vs Mac). If you ask which makes a better Apache platform, it would be OS/2. And so on and so on.

Best,
Rob


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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Fahrvenugen

Of course since Bob was designed to run under Win3.1, you  could likely run it under WinOS/2...   :)

RobertM

Quote from: Fahrvenugen on 2009.09.12, 00:52:26
Of course since Bob was designed to run under Win3.1, you  could likely run it under WinOS/2...   :)

YAY! Off to eBay to find a copy!!!  ;D


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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Saijin_Naib

Speed and usability on low memory/legacy systems: OS/2
Programs/Gaming/Research/Office: Windows
Customizability: Toss up. Both have many things that can and can't be changed :C
Geek Factor: OS/2

ddan

You give 'em too little credit, saijin! It's a clean sweep for Crimosoft in
these categories:
SPYWARE, PHONING HOME: absolutely Crimosoft "wins"; OS/2 doesn't compete.
ILLEGAL AND IMMORAL TACTICS: Crimosoft, so far ahead as to be out of sight.
DRM -- whether it's working or not is a guess, but in place: Crimosoft
NAGGING, ESPECIALLY STUPIDLY: Crimosoft, OS/2 again doesn't even compete
CHANGE IN GUI FOR SAKE OF CHANGE: Crimosoft, OS/2 barely since Warp.
CHANGED "STANDARDS" WTIHOUT INCREASE OF FUNCTION: Crimosoft
# OF CONCURRENT VERSIONS: Crimosoft
EXTRACTING MONEY FOR TRIFLING IMPROVEMENTS: Crimosoft
THREATS, HINDRANCES TO OPERABILITY: Crimosoft
VULNERABILITIES FROM DEFAULT OPEN PORTS: Crimosoft

I'm only coincidentally here to point out how right I was about Crimosoft
trolling in the "Engineering Windows 7", er, advertising forum, wasn't really
a blog. http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/

Even posting ended August 10th, I suppose just too difficult to pretend since
everything major had been chiseled into granite a year prior. The site served
its purpose of diverting criticism with anonymous fanboy posts, now it's over.

My favorite was the post on wallpapers, seriously presented as "engineering".
NOW it's clear that was, but SECRETLY so with characteristic Crimosoft EVIL as
their purpose: they've a scheme to literally sell theming as advertising
space, with a way to lock it in place. The scope and perfidy of Crimosoft's
sheer greed is ONLY STARTING now that they've tightened up "security", heh.

Last title is: "What we do with a bug report?" [sic]. Like all Crimosoft does,
any oddity is converted into a feature, at least in the comments, and then the
matter is entirely and forever dropped. I'm not overly alarmed about the
particular "bug", either, but the way it's handled is entirely too typical.