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Open Office for eCS-OS/2 2.4 Beta1

Started by Andi710, 2008.03.19, 08:18:09

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Robert Deed

Please don't spout that propaganda those russians that coded panorama have put out.  Panorama's performance is no where near that of a full accelerated driver.  Shadow buffer is no replacement for acceleration and most SNAP drivers actually make use of it as well.  

Obviously your initial start up time shows that someone is definitely a bit wonky.  What JFS settings are you using? Though read time should be about the same no matter how you have it configured.  Are you using the newest DANI driver?  Possibly get some drive throughput benchmarks from sysbench.  I had a problem a few months ago and found that my 32bit access was disabled by default in my bios (which was a bit odd, but I have confirmed with other machines with the same board they all shipped this way)  my bootup time went from 3mins to 32 seconds.  I'm not saying that is it, but it is possible that your disk drivers are failing to initalize in the correct mode.

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.03.20, 07:02:25
Thanks for the general hardware hints, but I am fully aware of all these things, you forget I am a gamer and I build my rig from scratch :P Unfortunately, yes, I am using Panorama, but with Shadow Buffer On (performance akin to SNAP with Accel for most things). I know scrolling will be slow, but I'm not referencing that. I am using eCS 2.0 RC4 on a JFS drive, 8gb, WD IDE with UDMA 5/PIO4. My machine specs are in my sig, I have plenty of RAM. I'm commenting on the very long startup time VS OO for Windows, and how unresponsive the menus are, and how generally sluggish the program strikes me as being. If indeed this is a native app, then it by no means should be this pokey. I was under the impression it was hobbled by being emulated, but apparently this is not the case. Oh well, its the only option we have, but thats no reason to be complacent.

Saijin_Naib

No, 32-bit access is on for all drives, and I am using the latest DANI drivers. My JFS settings are at the system default, I am trying to keep this install of eCS running longer than my previous best of 1 month, which I believe I have beaten at this point (w00t!).

Well, you know what, unless someone makes a new SNAP that supports my 7600GT, Panorama with Shadow Buffer is all I have, and it beats SNAP VESA and IBM GRADD to DEATH in terms of performance and usability. Its fine for moving windows (impossible under any other driver), and working with the GUI. Granted, scrolling is a bit pokey, but I can accept that for now. I can even run DIVE apps reasonably. I would love to have an accelerated driver for my card, but it aint ever happening. And I have no intention of putting my FX 5500 back in JUST to use eCS with "acceleration", if you can even call it that.

RobertM

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.03.20, 07:21:01
Haha, thanks :) I don't do anything intensive under eCS, so I would hope that my (admittedly modest in modern times) hardware will be enough. I mean, I can run Crysis, F.E.A.R, Half-Life 2, etc etc, so I really get rather miffed when an office application takes longer to open than a high-end game like Team Fortress 2. ??? Call me crazy, I know, but still :P

Admittedly modest?!?!?!?!  >:(

;D  ;D  ;D

Other than my servers, all my workstations would thus be categorized as "admittedly ancient"  ;D My fastest was an Intel 845 series mobo with a P4 2.8 - then I decided to turn it into a backup server and file server... leaving my current fastest as this machine with a whoppingly fast AMD Athlon 1.1GHz CPU and 512MB memory.

As for how long it takes to open... doesnt bother me... gives me an excuse to switch to Firefox and read slashdot.org or here or startreknewvoyages.com for just a few minutes longer.

;)


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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Robert Deed

#18
Would love to know why it starts so quickly here though.

3 seconds from click to open and usable.

On macOS on a G5 PPC mac with 1gb ram it takes 1 min for the window to apear, and then 45seconds to render the UI.

Quote from: RobertM on 2008.03.20, 07:27:54
Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.03.20, 07:21:01
Haha, thanks :) I don't do anything intensive under eCS, so I would hope that my (admittedly modest in modern times) hardware will be enough. I mean, I can run Crysis, F.E.A.R, Half-Life 2, etc etc, so I really get rather miffed when an office application takes longer to open than a high-end game like Team Fortress 2. ??? Call me crazy, I know, but still :P

Admittedly modest?!?!?!?!  >:(

;D  ;D  ;D

Other than my servers, all my workstations would thus be categorized as "admittedly ancient"  ;D My fastest was an Intel 845 series mobo with a P4 2.8 - then I decided to turn it into a backup server and file server... leaving my current fastest as this machine with a whoppingly fast AMD Athlon 1.1GHz CPU and 512MB memory.

As for how long it takes to open... doesnt bother me... gives me an excuse to switch to Firefox and read slashdot.org or here or startreknewvoyages.com for just a few minutes longer.

;)

Saijin_Naib

Well Robert, in light of CPUs like Intel's Quad Core Extreme, or even the "modest" Dual-Core e6850, my CPU is basically nothing more than a Casio Calculator Watch. Its sad when the VIA C7- (2.0ghz) [VIA CPUs are considered to be miserably slow by today's standards] beats my CPU out by 30,000 points in a benchmarking utility. I also have slooow RAM (PC2100, blegh) with no Dual-Channel support, and a slow FSB of 533mhz. I am also crippled by IDE and AGP 4x bus, all coming together to make a computer that gets larfed at by anything else around.

Robert Deed

Up until I switched out to a X1650 I had been using a Matrox G400Max in my gaming machine and it was actually performing quite well.  (I had hacked the drivers to do some things they shouldn't).  Though anytime a VIA (cyrix) chip beats anything in a benchmark it is a cold day in hell.

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.03.20, 07:31:34
Well Robert, in light of CPUs like Intel's Quad Core Extreme, or even the "modest" Dual-Core e6850, my CPU is basically nothing more than a Casio Calculator Watch. Its sad when the VIA C7- (2.0ghz) [VIA CPUs are considered to be miserably slow by today's standards] beats my CPU out by 30,000 points in a benchmarking utility. I also have slooow RAM (PC2100, blegh) with no Dual-Channel support, and a slow FSB of 533mhz. I am also crippled by IDE and AGP 4x bus, all coming together to make a computer that gets larfed at by anything else around.

Saijin_Naib

The 30k points were mostly in how the VIA raped my P4 in terms of AES and other encryption algorithms, but that is to be expected, as the VIA are the only CPUs with hardware encryption engines. It also did marginally better with other compression/decompression things like image decoding and archive decompression. Its a cold day, but I like where VIA is going. I like the idea of green tech, and I hope that Nvidia doesn't destroy that when they acquire VIA. I still want a VIA C7-M based computer, possibly the gPC or gPC dev board so that I can retire my P3-Celeron back home :)

Andi710

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.03.19, 20:35:34
You said; "Probably because 'Internal Rate of Return' is one of the worst measures to base investment decisions on. Use NPV (Net Present Value) instead..." Now, isn't that very funny since this is one of the Financial Analyses Tools that are used by the United Nation Industrial Development Organization (UNIDO). Here, follow the attached link and see for yourself. ;) :-

http://www.unido.org/doc/3383

http://www.win2biz.com/comfar/default.htm

http://www.npsnconference.ir/Files/File/REGISTFORM_05_2008.pdf

Question is: What do "you" know that the "folks" at the United Nations Industrial Development Organization (UNIDO) among others don't know.?

Good luck to you.
 

This is heavily off topic now, but just have a look into any good finance intro book to learn about the trouble with IRR. Just try to evaluate a portfolio of projects, try to evaluate a project where cash flows get re-invested etc. A nice intro is in Copeland Weston and Shastri (2005): "Financial Theory and Corporate Policy", Chapter 2F.

Why does UNIDO use it - maybe because it's built in to Excel? ;o) Maybe because they are bureaucrats that need to get paid for the quantity of cases they evaluate? Maybe because the guys deciding about the rules of evaluation got their education quite some time ago and science went on - frankly, I don't know.

What I do know from the projects I was part in (among them an investment project with almost 2 billion EUR in volume - initially, before we helped our client to save 30% of it), that it's not unusual that you need to explain a corporate decision maker why something like discounting is a good idea at all. And I recognize that authority often overrules reason - especially if you can afford wasting money because there is no competitive pressure that forces you to be smart to survive. Large scale public projects are a perfect example here.

melf

#23
Well back to numbers again, this is my timings on LG22PTV centrino dual core 1.75Ghz:

                     winXP      eCS RC4

OO 1:st      10 sec      5 sec   (preload)
OO 2:nd      2 sec      2 sec   (preload)

OO 1:st          18 sec          29 sec (no preload)
OO 2:nd         4 sec            20 sec (no preload)

As you see on my system OO in XP is faster than OO in eCS if not preloaded, but slower if preloaded.
/Mikael

djcaetano

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.03.20, 05:17:56
No, I have it off in Windows XP, and it still starts about 2x as fast. I've posted the time comparisons here before in another thread. Also, I'm taking about the use of the program's GUI as well once it has finally decided that it wishes to load.

  Weird enough, I find this behaviour really annoying; but it is not a problem with OS/2... it's a problem with OO/2 code ... probably debug code being enabled. How can I say that? Well, Windows OpenOffice 2.x running via ODIN/Innotek Runtime is at least twice as fast as OO/2 in loading times. And I said "at least".

  I really hope a "native" final version, without debug data, will be faster than an ODINized one. But only time will tell. :P

djcaetano

Quote from: Robert Deed on 2008.03.20, 07:22:55
Please don't spout that propaganda those russians that coded panorama have put out.  Panorama's performance is no where near that of a full accelerated driver.  Shadow buffer is no replacement for acceleration and most SNAP drivers actually make use of it as well. 

  Please, stop blaming russian programmers. :P
  They never stated Panorama to be faster than accelerated drivers, they just stated that Panorama with Shadow Buffer is waaaaaaaaaaaay faster than SNAP VESA driver (and this is a true fact). Panorama with SB is about 90% of the speed on direct video access and has only 40% of the speed on PM graphic routines when compared to accelerated graphics. It's not an incredible performance, but it is superb for a VESA driver, indeed.

kim

Even if this thread now is about the late upcoming of the 2.4 Beta 1; but hey why didn't the skip the 2.4 beta and got right on to the OOo 3 beta?

saborion2

Nicely said; but, Hey! off topic... and yet you went on with; "Why does UNIDO use it - maybe because it's built in to Excel? ;o) Maybe because they are bureaucrats that need to get paid for the quantity of cases they evaluate? Maybe because the guys deciding about the rules of evaluation got their education quite some time ago and science went on - frankly, I don't know.

What I do know from the projects I was part in (among them an investment project with almost 2 billion EUR in volume - initially, before we helped our client to save 30% of it), that it's not unusual that you need to explain a corporate decision maker why something like discounting is a good idea at all..."  ;) Matter of fact, it was not only the UNIDO; but, also and more so the Inter-American Development Bank - IDB ( http://www.iadb.org ) and it will appear quite incomprehensible the down and out people in the Latin American and Caribbean countries that the Inter-American Development Bank serves quite fit the bureaucratic labeling.  ???.

Re: "maybe because it's built in to Excel?". The Internal Rate of Return (IRR) functionality as far as I do know comes integrated into the IBM's Lotus 1-2-3, the IBM's Lotus Notes Productivity Suite, IBM's Lotus Symphony and Open Office's - Calc Spread Sheet Applications; so, it is not the case that the Internal Rate of Return (IRR) is restricted to the Microsoft's Excel Application alone.

Then again; are we done now with the question or what - stopping at the Internal  Rate of Return (IRR) computations... what about the question with regards to the ability to convert from the Internal Rate of Return (IRR) values to the Economic Rate of Return (ERR) values during the evaluation of projects requiring international considerations.

Just curious.. (re: "What I do know from the projects I was part in (among them an investment project with almost 2 billion EUR in volume") which country are you in and what is it that you do at present (job wise  ;) .

Also, do you have any idea as to why the feasibility of some particular projects have to take as much as three years to be completed.  ??? Maybe your expertise is needed here. ;) !

"RUSAL to mull hydropower
-refinery, smelter studies also on the cards"

http://www.stabroeknews.com/index.pl/article?id=56513627

"IAMGOLD seeking 'amicable' solution to bauxite sale
-says will incur US$30M loss"

http://www.stabroeknews.com/index.pl/article?id=56513150

Here is a glimpse of COMFETAR - LIVE for you:

http://www-304.ibm.com/jct09002c/gsdod/solutiondetails.do?solution=14283&expand=true&lc=en

Enjoy!

Saijin_Naib

Thanks for clarifying whats up DJ, I was wondering why OS/2 OO would be so damned slow, when OS/2 benchmarked the exact same score in SuperPI as Windows XP did, indicating that the two OSs are on par as far as CPU work is concerned. Now that OO/2 is mostly modern, I'm quite happy with it, though its still too slow to use comfortably. I can only hope it improves with time, and stays in step with the other Big 3 of OO.

And I actually like Panorama, its pretty damned fast, and beats SNAP VESA and IBM GRADD to death. It could certainly use some more improvements and optimizations (especially where scrolling is concerned [yuck!]), but its pretty great as is. Also, the SMP text-mode crash needs fixings, I cant handle that. I shouldn't have to choose between SMP and a stable video driver.

miturbide

Today it was announced that OpenOffice.org 2.4 is GA for Window/Linux/Solaris.
http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/03/27/172206.shtml

Lets hope that the OS/2 version became GA soon.
Martín Itúrbide
OS2World.com NewsMaster
Open Source Advocate

Skype - martiniturbide
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