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Sometimes the truth hurts.

Started by El Vato, 2008.01.12, 00:24:13

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El Vato

...especially in the very own words of an insider:

"...Plus, you ['...entitled, spoiled whiners'] don't see me getting in your business every time some Microsoft program crashes on me, do you?"

http://www.networkworld.com/columnists/2005/061305buzz.html?page=1

"every time" ???  It sounds like a chronic illness.

Saijin_Naib

Way to exploit context.

If you want to talk chronic illness, talk WPS hangs due to the SIQ issue that has not been addressed since the creation of the operating system (referring to my beloved OS/2 of course).

If I had a dollar for "every time" the WPS hung due to some stupid sound issue, or the IFE/firefox issue, or just for no god-damned reason, I'd be rich enough to be on my way to my c2de build.

El Vato

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.01.12, 03:49:09
Way to exploit context.

I beg your pardon ???  I believe that words like, "some Microsoft program crashes on me..." might rather imply an endemic disease...

Saijin_Naib

Hmmm. I dont know, I've had IBM programs crash in OS/2 before. Just because it was written by the people who supplied the OS does not mean it will be free from worry. As for the author of the article, the only micrsoft supplied application that has given me issue so far has been WMP11, and that was before I fixed an error due to an improper install of a HD decoder filter.

As for my "way to exploit context" comment, I was pissy because I just woke up and I was focusing on the impression I gathered that you were implying that since someone who worked for MS said that apps crash for her that there was a big problem behind all of it.

chennecke

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.01.12, 07:47:51
Hmmm. I dont know, I've had IBM programs crash in OS/2 before. Just because it was written by the people who supplied the OS does not mean it will be free from worry. As for the author of the article, the only micrsoft supplied application that has given me issue so far has been WMP11, and that was before I fixed an error due to an improper install of a HD decoder filter.

Have you ever written a document with Word that consisted of more than 40-50 pages? That's when the problems usually start. And at over 70-80 pages things get ugly. All that assumed that you use style sheets in the proper way instead of formatting headlines and the like seperately. Otherwise the pain starts earlier.

Inter-program communication between Word and Access is another candidate. Mail merge tends to "forget" which queries to use.

Saijin_Naib

^ Nope, thankfully :P My thesis work is not until next year, right now, I have only just crossed the 20pg mark a few times, but this was with heavy use of Tables and Figures and other rich-content.

What are these "problems"?

Also, dont use Access, no need for database work (yet) .

S.SubZero

Quote from: chennecke on 2008.01.13, 22:53:26
Have you ever written a document with Word that consisted of more than 40-50 pages? That's when the problems usually start. And at over 70-80 pages things get ugly. All that assumed that you use style sheets in the proper way instead of formatting headlines and the like seperately. Otherwise the pain starts earlier.
I don't open that size of document very often, but it has been several years since I've had Word or any Office app outright crash on me.  At least in your example it's a big Word document.  I can usually hang the WPS in OS/2 4.52 simply by playing a couple of rounds of the Klondike Solitaire app that it comes with.

Any OS/2 user who says the SIQ problem doesn't exist or "they never saw it" is lying.  It's the Achilles' Heel of an otherwise fairly solid OS. 

RobertM

Quote from: S.SubZero on 2008.01.14, 23:00:02
Quote from: chennecke on 2008.01.13, 22:53:26
Have you ever written a document with Word that consisted of more than 40-50 pages? That's when the problems usually start. And at over 70-80 pages things get ugly. All that assumed that you use style sheets in the proper way instead of formatting headlines and the like seperately. Otherwise the pain starts earlier.
I don't open that size of document very often, but it has been several years since I've had Word or any Office app outright crash on me.  At least in your example it's a big Word document.  I can usually hang the WPS in OS/2 4.52 simply by playing a couple of rounds of the Klondike Solitaire app that it comes with.

I'd say that is indicative of a different issue - I used to use that app as one of the apps to show off OS/2's multitasking... I'd run multiple copies at the same time in autoplay mode along with Chess in Computer vs Computer mode and never experience a WPS hang.


Quote from: S.SubZero on 2008.01.14, 23:00:02
Any OS/2 user who says the SIQ problem doesn't exist or "they never saw it" is lying.  It's the Achilles' Heel of an otherwise fairly solid OS. 

Yeah, the SIQ issue is an issue... and I doubt anyone would say they haven't seen it... Firefox spawns it - though switching to something else (to force OS/2 to take focus away from Firefox) resolves the issue in a few seconds (3-30 depending on how you have the "Focus Change Sensitivity" setting set on the "System" dialog box on the "User Interface" tab.

Of course, there aren't tons of open ports (none actually)... which to me is a better tradeoff for an occassional annoyance. An annoyance much akin to not being able to use or close a window on Windows when you have a file copy running... ;)


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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Saijin_Naib

O_o Rly? I dont have this issue in WinXP.

I have the focus change sensitivity set to 5ms, how long does that translate into "real time" so I know whether or not to give OS/2 a chance to do it before I bust out CAD-H?

RobertM

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.01.15, 00:51:40
O_o Rly? I dont have this issue in WinXP.

Really? Try copying a lot of files from one folder to another using drag and drop (not by using right click, "copy", "paste") and tell me that the copy box does not become modal for either the folder you are copying from or to (meaning it forces itself above it, and you cannot move the copy box below the folder).

It would be really nice if some unknown service pack fixed it - so if you dont see those results, I'd REALLY like to know so we can figure out how to fix our XP machine here... I thought the machine was fully updated - but if you are getting different results, maybe it isnt.

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.01.15, 00:51:40
I have the focus change sensitivity set to 5ms, how long does that translate into "real time" so I know whether or not to give OS/2 a chance to do it before I bust out CAD-H?

5= 5/10 second (1/2 second)... give it about 3-5 seconds... (it takes longer than the time you enter to complete - but starts the action in that 1/2 second).


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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Saijin_Naib

#10
I'm not sure if I'm understanding you properly, but I just transferred 883 mp3s with a combined file size of 4.84GB from a DVD to my C drive via dnd and I was able to close the window that I was copying to and from, and move the copy box around just fine, and even take focus from it so I could do other things. Windows update should let you know what updates you need.

Edit: Read up on Modal and Transient Windows on Wiki, and I am not sure what it the copy dialog was, but it did not block me from workflow like Wiki states modal windows do. Like I said, I was able to close the DVD window, close the C:\Music window, and continue typing this post without it hindering me in any way.

Edit Edit: I am running Windows XP Sp2 Professional (x86) Build 2600 HAL: 5.1.2600.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)

Final Edit: Yeap, close the window that spawned the Copy dialog and they will become their own dealie, "transient", with an entry on the start bar and everything. However, keep the parent window open, and they will remain "modal".
Or you can just take focus away from the parent window and continue working normally and leave it wherever it is out of the way.

lwriemen

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.01.12, 03:49:09
If you want to talk chronic illness, talk WPS hangs due to the SIQ issue that has not been addressed since the creation of the operating system (referring to my beloved OS/2 of course).

IBM addressed the SIQ issue with a timer in Warp 4 (or was it a Warp 3 FP?).

Robert Deed

As someone who moves alot of files around for work I'd have to say it has about a 50% possibility of freezing your whole system if you do it via DND in XP or Vista.  Sometimes it works fine.. other times.. the machine is damn near useless during the move.

However this is all pretty stupid discussion. 

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.01.15, 04:03:23
I'm not sure if I'm understanding you properly, but I just transferred 883 mp3s with a combined file size of 4.84GB from a DVD to my C drive via dnd and I was able to close the window that I was copying to and from, and move the copy box around just fine, and even take focus from it so I could do other things. Windows update should let you know what updates you need.

Edit: Read up on Modal and Transient Windows on Wiki, and I am not sure what it the copy dialog was, but it did not block me from workflow like Wiki states modal windows do. Like I said, I was able to close the DVD window, close the C:\Music window, and continue typing this post without it hindering me in any way.

Edit Edit: I am running Windows XP Sp2 Professional (x86) Build 2600 HAL: 5.1.2600.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)

Final Edit: Yeap, close the window that spawned the Copy dialog and they will become their own dealie, "transient", with an entry on the start bar and everything. However, keep the parent window open, and they will remain "modal".
Or you can just take focus away from the parent window and continue working normally and leave it wherever it is out of the way.

Saijin_Naib

Id say there is someting wrong with your hardware or software if it freezes during file transfer. windows isnt THAT shitty. As for the SIQ issue being fixed, LOL. Sure, if you call the timer a "fix" when the WPS still hangs and needs hard resets.

Criguada

Saijin,
given the problems that you have with eComStation, I could say the same thing: OS/2 isn't that shitty, it's a problem either in your HW or in the way you do things. BTW, you already admitted you use to break things and don't know how to get out of the problems you generate.
I already told you, and I'll told you once again: if your REALLY want to do something with OS/2 (rather than whining about the fact that OS/2 is different from Windows) then please TRY to understand OS/2. That's true for every other operating system: if you don't want to learn, than just stay with what you have.

I have to say that your (apparent) habit of saying bold things, and then - when questioned about them - say "I just thought it was so, maybe I'm wrong" is quite irritating to me. Please stay with what facts you have been able to collect in your experience.

As for the SIQ fix, saying that it is just a "timer" is really an understatement. You are just quoting what lwriemen said. The SIQ is not really affecting anyone since it was fixed years ago. That's not to say that we're not experiencing it anymore sometimes, but it is just a momentarily annoyance of a few seconds, of a type (i.e. the GUI not responding) that you can easily experience (for other reasons) in a lot of other operating systems, including Windows.

If you're having WPS hangs that need a reset, you're experiencing something else that I cannot recognize, because I don't have it. PLEASE look for further information, understand the software you're installing (maybe WPS extenders conflicting?), try to learn how to do maintenance of the INIs, etc. Every OS needs maintenance, and Windows is NOT an exception (quite the contrary).

...and I have to agree with Robert that this discussion is quite stupid and idle, and I'm sorry I haven't been able to stop myself from replying.

Bye