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My Smart Fortwo Pure

Started by BigWarpGuy, 2008.03.28, 19:31:41

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saborion2

Re:

Quote
Yes, Formula races are run on e85.  These cars had a 30% drop in performance, so bad they were thinking about bringing the limit back up to 10 cylinders to make up for the difference.   There is a big difference between competive racing and something which could be used in a street car.  For one, the race cars are going around a track and their fuel supply is never far away.  Also, f1 in general has fixed pit stops and regulated how often they need to refuel.  Also, racing is heavily subsidized by sponsorships.. in this case.. a few companies which create and market e85.   

Many of these cars have engines swapped out within one season.  As internal combustion engines age their energy creation potential drops.  This is because of wear of the pistons and seals and change in the compression of the engine.  While formula cars will never experience this issue, a road car will over it's lifespan.. when you start with 30% less power, and then  have to deal with the effects of time on the engine you will very quickly have a car which drives unsatisfactory.  Not to mention, it makes for very hard cold weather starts.

I tend not to pay attention to adverts because it just leaves me looking like a fool.

Ok, ok... Robert, let us say you have won the in the case/argument of the non-use of ethanol as fuel for transportation... now, just what effect will we now experience with respect to the cost of putting food on our kitchen tables, and the costs of transportation within the context of the world's petroleum production outlook?  8)


kim

Quote from: Robert Deed on 2008.04.23, 07:36:28
Brazil still is using E85, good old American corn ethanol.  While they have discovered ways of producing ethanol from other crops, as far as I am aware none are currently in production today.  I have alot more faith in sunfuel since it is close to being viable, can be used in any currently available diesel engine without modification, has close to no co2 impact and diesel engines are more efficient then gassers anyway.

Well, actually as Brazil is the number one producer of ethanol in the world and among other the majority of ethanol used in Sweden comes from.... Brazil. Sugar cane did the trick for them. Also Australia is putting a lot of efforts into sugar cane to produce ethanol, due to the prices of oil, there is now a lot of money to be made. Read some where that Australia plan to be among the top 3 producers of ethanol in a few year.

RobertM

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.04.25, 02:03:00
Ok, ok... Robert, let us say you have won the in the case/argument of the non-use of ethanol as fuel for transportation... now, just what effect will we now experience with respect to the cost of putting food on our kitchen tables, and the costs of transportation within the context of the world's petroleum production outlook?  8)

Hmmm...

Food production: negligible. In the US we burn enough related crops to feed the entire world 3 times over. In actuality, it may help lower taxes as the US govt will no longer need to subsidize so many farms.

Cost of transportation: Since it would reduce the need for petroluem based products, it should thus also lower their cost (the whole supply/demand thing - the closer towards a surplus, the lower the price - basic economics 101). In addition, it will mean more competition in the fuel market - the major petroleum companies will no longer control heating and travel fuel 100% (even though they may still control final distribution to a large extent - ie: the pumps at gas stations)... since they wont be able to artificially inflate the price of these products they dont produce, making them cheaper alternatives (even after factoring their distribution costs), it will be a more attractive alternative to fossil fuels, also forcing them to lower an already artificially inflated fossil fuel price to something more competitive.

At least those are my opinions on the matter... Robert?


Robert


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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Robert Deed

Not much.  Since food production and distribution is more dependent on diesel and there are plenty of alternatives which can be used in an unaltered diesel engine. 

The oil companies and partner companies which are creating this stuff are just waiting for the right moment to step in and save the day.  Obviously if 50% of our diesel trucks were given the option to run biodiesel at no loss of efficiency (in most cases increased mileage and service intervals) the prices of petroleum based diesel and heating fuel would plummet.  This wouldn't be good either.

The argument is all academic.  I believe the road we're going to b e going down is already paved, and they are just waiting to remove the cones and let us through. 

Quote from: saborion2 on 2008.04.25, 02:03:00
Re:

Quote
Yes, Formula races are run on e85.  These cars had a 30% drop in performance, so bad they were thinking about bringing the limit back up to 10 cylinders to make up for the difference.   There is a big difference between competive racing and something which could be used in a street car.  For one, the race cars are going around a track and their fuel supply is never far away.  Also, f1 in general has fixed pit stops and regulated how often they need to refuel.  Also, racing is heavily subsidized by sponsorships.. in this case.. a few companies which create and market e85.   

Many of these cars have engines swapped out within one season.  As internal combustion engines age their energy creation potential drops.  This is because of wear of the pistons and seals and change in the compression of the engine.  While formula cars will never experience this issue, a road car will over it's lifespan.. when you start with 30% less power, and then  have to deal with the effects of time on the engine you will very quickly have a car which drives unsatisfactory.  Not to mention, it makes for very hard cold weather starts.

I tend not to pay attention to adverts because it just leaves me looking like a fool.

Ok, ok... Robert, let us say you have won the in the case/argument of the non-use of ethanol as fuel for transportation... now, just what effect will we now experience with respect to the cost of putting food on our kitchen tables, and the costs of transportation within the context of the world's petroleum production outlook?  8)



Robert Deed

#64
You're right.. I did misspeak my source for the stats was outdated, however brazil  doesn't edge the US out by a whole lot, and in 2006 the US actually outproduced brazil.


Also, most of the problems are outlined here: http://www.energybulletin.net/5062.html   though I don't believe this was completely unbiased and it is slightly dated it still lists the problems for a "green" energy source..  ethanol may be an alternate fuel, it is however not green. 

However.. e85 is still e85 no matter how it is produced, while using sugar cane reduces the impact on food supplies, it still has less energy potential of other fuel sources.

If we are going to use ethanol at all, it would be best if we ran on straight ethanol (not an ethanol/petro blend) and had cars which were tuned to simply run on it, the problem here is that the petro is used mostly as a stabilization agent, since alcohol is much more dangerous to transport in a fuel tank then petro is.  I have seen formula engines modified to run off pure ethanol and the storage system was a aluminum fuel cell.  This of course wouldn't be suitable for road use, even though the car was close to 600hp it did max out at about 2.5mpg =)

 

Quote from: kimhav on 2008.04.25, 02:21:27
Quote from: Robert Deed on 2008.04.23, 07:36:28
Brazil still is using E85, good old American corn ethanol.  While they have discovered ways of producing ethanol from other crops, as far as I am aware none are currently in production today.  I have alot more faith in sunfuel since it is close to being viable, can be used in any currently available diesel engine without modification, has close to no co2 impact and diesel engines are more efficient then gassers anyway.

Well, actually as Brazil is the number one producer of ethanol in the world and among other the majority of ethanol used in Sweden comes from.... Brazil. Sugar cane did the trick for them. Also Australia is putting a lot of efforts into sugar cane to produce ethanol, due to the prices of oil, there is now a lot of money to be made. Read some where that Australia plan to be among the top 3 producers of ethanol in a few year.

Saijin_Naib

Quote from: Robert Deed on 2008.04.25, 06:04:51
even though the car was close to 600hp it did max out at about 2.5mpg =)

Oh, how I wish I could drive a car like that for a little :D

RobertM

Quote from: Saijin_Naib on 2008.04.25, 07:01:04
Quote from: Robert Deed on 2008.04.25, 06:04:51
even though the car was close to 600hp it did max out at about 2.5mpg =)

Oh, how I wish I could drive a car like that for a little :D

I'd be happy with (settle for) a Tesla Roadster...  ;D


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Kirk's 5 Year Mission Continues at:
Star Trek New Voyages
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Saijin_Naib

Hmmm, yes. But I still have the desire to drive  a supercar like the Ariel Atom2, or a CLK-GTR or some other crazy beast. I also am kinda annoyed I missed out on the American Muscle Car era, so I wouldnt mind a Dodge Charger/Challenger, or some other pavement rippling torque monster. This desire, of course, needs to be balaced by my A) empty wallet and B) enviromental concerns.

:C

saborion2

And, the (economic) debate about ethanol production and usage goes on.  ;) ::) ;)
Quote
Dollar-a-gallon ethanol plant in U.S. operation next year

http://www.news.com/8301-11128_3-9928810-54.html?tag=nefd.top


Note carefully the "economic debate" in the "Talk Back Forum" similarly to this one.  8)


saborion2

Hmmm...

Can this

Quote

Lenovo's 11-inch IdeaPad now available

http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9930548-7.html?tag=nefd.top


go hand-in-hand with my "Smart For Two"!

Also, if anyone can afford one soon, let's hope it is OS/2 compatible.  ;)

 

BigWarpGuy

I think I would rather use my little Asus EEE PC with my Little Smart Fortwo; small pc in a small car. They are both low priced; relatively speaking.  ;D
8)

saborion2

Hello there from over here in the Big Apple "BigWarpGuy"; It's good to see you. I would agree with your choice of
Quotelittle Asus EEE PC with my Little Smart Fortwo;
at least, at the rate the "gas" prices are going. There is a cool "race track" in Guyana, South America (the South Dakota Circuit); and, I believe it would be exciting to see some of these "Little Smart Fortwos" tearing (racing around) up the track.  ;D

BTW, what are your "projections/predictions" for the price of a gallon of gas... let's say in another six months or so.  8)

Best regards.


BigWarpGuy

It would be neat to see a IROC - international race of champions - using the Smart Fortwo. With only a three cylinder engine, it would not be fast but it would be interesting.  ;D

I have heard that gas prices here might go up to $5 per gallon (regular unleaded). I read that people will stop traveling (or do as little of it as possible) then gas prices will come down in price then people will go back to driving as usual. I think it will go up only to about $4 per gallon (regular unleaded).  8)

saborion2

Quote from: BigWarpGuy on 2008.04.30, 01:44:18
It would be neat to see a IROC - international race of champions - using the Smart Fortwo. With only a three cylinder engine, it would not be fast but it would be interesting.  ;D

I have heard that gas prices here might go up to $5 per gallon (regular unleaded). I read that people will stop traveling (or do as little of it as possible) then gas prices will come down in price then people will go back to driving as usual. I think it will go up only to about $4 per gallon (regular unleaded).  8)

Hey "BigWarpGuy";

What's up....!

At $4.05 per gallon (New York City pricing) I think that that has just clipped/surpassed  your earlier projected "$4 per gallon (regular unleaded)"  ;) ; and, according to the news, the "big oil" industry folks have been called to Capitol Hill for some questioning... I guess that a lot of folks will be listening in on what will be said there next week given the rising world fuel price trend. The way things are going.... some have better keep their "Smart ForTwo" handy. 8)

Best regards.

SAB

BigWarpGuy

At some stations near Trenton, the gas prices is $3.73 per unleaded regular gas. The stations near me in East Windsor New Jersey is $3.69 per unleaded regular gas (for now it is). I fill up the tank about every other week to almost every three weeks.   ;D