Author Topic: SWT port image  (Read 23954 times)

smiley

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Re: SWT port image
« Reply #15 on: 2008.05.30, 15:30:52 »
In general you can archive it and use torrent to share the file with others, but I did not yet do this thing on OS/2

saborion2

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Re: SWT port image
« Reply #16 on: 2008.05.30, 15:37:15 »
Hi Yuri;

Re:

Hi Leonardo,

Great to hear those news, but Im not a fan of ODIN ports. The more native the better. What JVM do you use for that port?, can you start Eclipse 3.x?

It cannot start programs like eclipse or azureus, but consider it took a couple of days to compile sources and create a native os2 dll. Jvm 1.5 or 1.4, it doesn't matter.

I understand Odin is not the preferred way, but it allows a really short development time. You can get sooner at latest level, and then you can inject support for native widgets in a second time.

Since only a few developers are active on OS/2, projects with less resource requirements are more interesting, and they are easier to put to GA level.

Yuri


So, what if the adequate incentives schemes (Bounty Proposals, Development Resources, Maintenance Contracts et cetera et etcetera...) are offered (put in place) to attract the developers so that "projects" become more lucrative and the required "GA" Stages and Dates are quite easily achievable.

Bada Bling! Bladi Blah!

SAB.


ydario

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Re: SWT port image
« Reply #17 on: 2008.05.30, 15:50:24 »

So, what if the adequate incentives schemes (Bounty Proposals, Development Resources, Maintenance Contracts et cetera et etcetera...) are offered (put in place) to attract the developers so that "projects" become more lucrative and the required "GA" Stages and Dates are quite easily achievable.


yes, they are a good system, but current offering is not enough to support a part time job, so current funds are good only for spare time development.

Yuri

saborion2

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Re: SWT port image
« Reply #18 on: 2008.05.30, 16:23:52 »

So, what if the adequate incentives schemes (Bounty Proposals, Development Resources, Maintenance Contracts et cetera et etcetera...) are offered (put in place) to attract the developers so that "projects" become more lucrative and the required "GA" Stages and Dates are quite easily achievable.


yes, they are a good system, but current offering is not enough to support a part time job, so current funds are good only for spare time development.

Yuri


Okay! Since it is agreed that the current "Bounty System" that was thoughtfully established by the OS/2 World Foundation is a "very good" one to address these issues; and, looking back at some of the questions that were raised on this thread (and, may I suggest we shift this discussion to this thread that was created specifically for these kinds of discussions); maybe, the questions with regards to

Quote

current offering(s) (Bounties..) is not (being) enough to support a part time job, so current funds are good only for spare time development


can be addressed appropriately and is a very professional manner. (What are offers from the developers). ;)

Kindest regards.

SAB


lpino

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Re: SWT port image
« Reply #19 on: 2008.05.30, 18:42:01 »
I'm going to try to zip the file to see if there is any reduction on the size. To be honest with all of you, I have no worries about the software that is going to be distributed on that file and for two main reasons:

- It is no meant to be distributed or sold
- The software in it, for 99% of the world is abandonware and nobody gives a s... about it

(There are a LOT more reasons, but I'm going to stop there).

So from tonight (EST), it will be share as a file on my HD as a swtos2.zip file (I'm using Ares).

Leonardo Pino

obiwan

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Re: SWT port image
« Reply #20 on: 2008.05.30, 19:26:43 »
This is all very interesting, to come to light.

  • An incomplete purely native SWT port in progress
  • A working Odin SWT port done very quickly
  • Eclipse partly working using SWTSwing (seen in other threads)
  • Recent discovery that Java 1.5 can be made to work
  • The full source code for OpenJDK

A lot of work here, but look at the potential.

I would set the priorities thus.

First, to get as much of this as is working, from a user standpoint, built and available for download and publicized, to attract attention and interest, so people get testing and hopefully willing to fix and contribute a little too.

Second, (sorry to say) some effort needs to be done to port this native SWT build to OpenWatcom, with some good makefiles (and perhaps a Netbeans or Eclipse project) to reproduce the build consistently. That's really the only effective way to facilitate collaboration well. The distribution of a whole OS and compiler in an image might help get this beyond a single developer, but it isn't a solution that will scale well in the medium and long term.

Third, the 3 known SWT solutions could be mixed. Requires some work, but would achieve the advantages that each has now, in a single package. As ydario pointed out, Odin gets it done quickly, so replacing the working Odin classes with native ones is a more fruitful process than working with nothing. The other reason for this is that the user and developer community is too small to support 3 fragmented implementations of the same thing. Users need a single download or they will choose one and be frustrated by its limitations and give up; and developers need to work from a single project base.

For those who find Odin or Swing too distasteful to even have present, it is much more prudent to make them a build option than maintain separate projects.

Of course, there is also the "fun" work of furthering this native SWT port, and that is what everyone has in mind, but that work will be made much smoother and more efficacious by these improvements to the development environment.

As for the OpenJDK source, it only becomes useful as we have a more complete Java setup, and a consistent way to build Java classes and tools from C, so it's interesting long-term, and pursuing a uniting effort in the way I am suggesting lays the foundation for everyone's efforts here to build on one another and move forward effectively toward that next level.


lpino

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Re: SWT port image
« Reply #21 on: 2008.05.30, 19:49:18 »

Second, (sorry to say) some effort needs to be done to port this native SWT build to OpenWatcom, with some good makefiles (and perhaps a Netbeans or Eclipse project) to reproduce the build consistently. That's really the only effective way to facilitate collaboration well. The distribution of a whole OS and compiler in an image might help get this beyond a single developer, but it isn't a solution that will scale well in the medium and long term.


Actually there were people working on these issues and some progress was made. In fact if you go to the site of the project you will see a trunk created for this purpose (watcom + ant 7 + GC java 1.4.1). I couldn't help much on that front since I get zero motivation from configuration issues and I'm rather slow at it. Although I did set everything and did a couple of test.

I agree with you. My point as for now is to put this work on more people's hands and make it known. At one point I even uploaded the swt.dll to hobbes I think, but no one was putting any attention, or maybe (most probably), didn't get, what it was. Maybe I could package swt2049.dll + swt.jar and the testcases and upload that so people can play with it and discover a world of bugs and lacking features.

For people interested on the port, I have a blog where you can read stuff about the progress of the project, at: http://os2advocacy.blogspot.com/

Thanks

Leonardo Pino

saborion2

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Re: SWT port image
« Reply #22 on: 2008.05.30, 23:55:25 »

Second, (sorry to say) some effort needs to be done to port this native SWT build to OpenWatcom, with some good makefiles (and perhaps a Netbeans or Eclipse project) to reproduce the build consistently. That's really the only effective way to facilitate collaboration well. The distribution of a whole OS and compiler in an image might help get this beyond a single developer, but it isn't a solution that will scale well in the medium and long term.


Actually there were people working on these issues and some progress was made. In fact if you go to the site of the project you will see a trunk created for this purpose (watcom + ant 7 + GC java 1.4.1). I couldn't help much on that front since I get zero motivation from configuration issues and I'm rather slow at it. Although I did set everything and did a couple of test.

I agree with you. My point as for now is to put this work on more people's hands and make it known. At one point I even uploaded the swt.dll to hobbes I think, but no one was putting any attention, or maybe (most probably), didn't get, what it was. Maybe I could package swt2049.dll + swt.jar and the testcases and upload that so people can play with it and discover a world of bugs and lacking features.

For people interested on the port, I have a blog where you can read stuff about the progress of the project, at: http://os2advocacy.blogspot.com/

Thanks

Leonardo Pino

From the experience of visiting the eclipse.org web site; and, the little interest (although I may be quite wrong about this) that has been shown since the last time I visited this site showing that there were no ongoing project for the porting of the "eclipse stack" to the OS/2 Operating System... I for one would appreciate it if the OS/2 World Foundation would (under the Main Menu) create an specific "Projects" link and have all the activities such as this one pertaining to the porting of SWT (or an eclipse port) to OS/2 "consolidated" at this location; if such a situation can exist then all the project information and development involving OS/2 (and, bordering on commercial and other usages) that is taking place could quite easily be accessed and made available to companies or individuals seeking such information and resources.

Just my two cents.

Kindest regards.

SAB


obiwan

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Re: SWT port image
« Reply #23 on: 2008.05.31, 00:20:26 »
It would be helpful to get proper attention toward these laudable and hard-earned efforts to have information organized someplace, especially considering that http://eclipse.netlabs.org is somewhat incomplete these days.

One possibility is to add more info and links to the wiki on the SWT project site http://svn.netlabs.org/swt/ since that is where Leonardo is already working. If the parties involved agree, the Odin SWT port and the SWTSwing port could be imported to the Subversion repo.

saborion2

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Re: SWT port image
« Reply #24 on: 2008.05.31, 07:15:43 »
It would be helpful to get proper attention toward these laudable and hard-earned efforts to have information organized someplace, especially considering that http://eclipse.netlabs.org is somewhat incomplete these days.

One possibility is to add more info and links to the wiki on the SWT project site http://svn.netlabs.org/swt/ since that is where Leonardo is already working. If the parties involved agree, the Odin SWT port and the SWTSwing port could be imported to the Subversion repo.

One question: Why is it that it has taken this long to get to this stage where recommendations/suggestions are only now being made for more focusing of "attention" to "these laudable and hard-earned efforts"; still, it is better late than never; and, perhaps the "best is yet to come for OS/2" as here (link attached below) is yet another compelling application to be added to the list which can take advantage of the port of SWT to OS/2:

Quote

Lotus Notes and WebSphere Portal

http://www-306.ibm.com/software/lotus/portal/notesandportal/


So, now we have these compelling "IBM Lotus Applications" (which are co-incidentally built on the Eclipse Framework) and will be depending on the SWT port to run on OS/2; and, these are as follows: Lotus Notes 8.0, Lotus SameTime 8.0 (Instant Messaging), Lotus Symphony.... 

Still, one more question: Are OS/2 Developers short-changing themselves and others ("leaving money on the table") in the world around them when it comes to the promotion of their "hard-earned efforts" and making available in a timely manner... "software products for OS/2"?  ??? ::) 8)

Regards.

SAB

« Last Edit: 2008.05.31, 08:24:52 by saborion2 »

alex

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Re: SWT port image
« Reply #25 on: 2008.05.31, 17:47:52 »
Hello Leonardo,

Are you already sharing your image?
I can't find it with Ares search.

I'de like to give your development environment a try.
I have some experience with native PM programming but the last time I touched some PM code is already a while ago.

Thanks
Alex

lpino

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Re: SWT port image
« Reply #26 on: 2008.06.02, 20:51:10 »
Hello Leonardo,

Are you already sharing your image?
I can't find it with Ares search.

I'de like to give your development environment a try.
I have some experience with native PM programming but the last time I touched some PM code is already a while ago.

Thanks
Alex

Yes the file is being shared, everyday after 20:00 hrs EST. The name is swtos2.zip and the size was reduced to 700 Mb.

Thanks

Leonardo Pino

saborion2

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Re: SWT port image
« Reply #27 on: 2008.06.02, 22:40:56 »
Re:

Quote

Yes the file is being shared, everyday after 20:00 hrs EST. The name is swtos2.zip and the size was reduced to 700 Mb.


Hi "Leonardo";

Do you have a GA Date for SWT for OS/2? If not, what is the earliest that one can attempt to run Lotus Symphony 1.0 (now GA) on OS/2 using your port of SWT for OS/2?.

Re:

Quote

IBM® Lotus® Symphony 1.0™

http://symphony.lotus.com/software/lotus/symphony/home.jspa#


Also, moving forward... what is the "road map" for SWT for OS/2?

Thanking you in anticipation for your kind response.

Best regards.

SAB

lpino

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Re: SWT port image
« Reply #28 on: 2008.06.03, 00:58:02 »
Re:

Quote

Yes the file is being shared, everyday after 20:00 hrs EST. The name is swtos2.zip and the size was reduced to 700 Mb.


Hi "Leonardo";

Do you have a GA Date for SWT for OS/2? If not, what is the earliest that one can attempt to run Lotus Symphony 1.0 (now GA) on OS/2 using your port of SWT for OS/2?.

Re: No, there is no date,, in fact we are far from one. As I mentioned before, the port is incomplete and my skills to finish it are simply not there. Besides, the port it is from a very old version of SWT and probably Symphony is using a SWT v3.x

Quote

IBM® Lotus® Symphony 1.0™

http://symphony.lotus.com/software/lotus/symphony/home.jspa#


Also, moving forward... what is the "road map" for SWT for OS/2?

Thanking you in anticipation for your kind response.

Best regards.

SAB


The road map ahead is uncertain. It depends on my time and other people joining the effort. Today "most" of the controls and dialogs are implemented.
We should first finish the remaining controls and complete the ones we already have. Then we should try to start Eclipse 2.01 using the port.

After that we have many choices:

- Change tools and then go for updated versions of SWT
- Go for the updated versions of SWT and move to newer, "better" tools as we go along
- Go for version 2.1 on the old tools and to version 3.x on newer tools

So you see, there are lots of things to do, just not enough hands

Leonardo Pino

saborion2

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Re: SWT port image
« Reply #29 on: 2008.06.03, 03:46:28 »
Hi Leonardo;

Re:

Quote

The road map ahead is uncertain. It depends on my time and other people joining the effort. Today "most" of the controls and dialogs are implemented.
We should first finish the remaining controls and complete the ones we already have. Then we should try to start Eclipse 2.01 using the port.

After that we have many choices:

- Change tools and then go for updated versions of SWT
- Go for the updated versions of SWT and move to newer, "better" tools as we go along
- Go for version 2.1 on the old tools and to version 3.x on newer tools

So you see, there are lots of things to do, just not enough hands


This is exactly the kinds of scenarios that I believe the US "SOX" (The Sarbanes-Oxley Act):

Re:

Quote

The Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002 is mandatory. ALL organizations, large and small, MUST comply.....

http://www.soxlaw.com/


must have sought to address. Here is it that on the dawn of what one would consider an important step forward in the effort of keeping OS/2 alive; and, from what you appear to be saying; and, just to repeat...
Quote
The road map ahead is uncertain
So,from the foregoing... can you give an indication as to what would be the compelling business case(s) (bankable ones, defect support for SWT for OS/2...) that would see the kinds of commitments that can be ascribed to development activities involving the Windows, Linux, OSX.... Operating Systems.
 
Thank you.

Regards.

SAB